Bill, there's something very dark at work here and I agree with you it's more than AIPAC money and the Christian Evangelicals pushing for the End Times.
U.S. Presidents and Congresses had pushed back on Israeli barbarism and overreach. But in the last 30 years that has all but disappeared. The combined influence of CIA/Mossad, since Netanyahu came to power, has grown out of control (it was said Trump was briefed by Mossad before the U.S. strike on Iran).
Their methods are well known: bribes, blackmail, and murder (of relatives).
Hello TomR, Bill A.... Read the Book by John Mearshiemer, and Stephen Walt, titled the "Israel Lobby"... It came out in 2005, it is dated but still relevant... Bibi came into Power in the Mid-'90s... Bibi's influence is Nefarious.... All Roads Lead To Bibi...
If there was no crude oil under Middle East sands, the only motivation for USA to have advocated for the founding of the Israeli State in 1948 would have been to encourage Jews on US soil to leave!! One of the truest observations on politico-economics I've ever encountered--I can't even say how many decades ago--is this: "The United States has no permanent friends, only permanent interests." And since oil is such an indispensable commodity, it has benefitted the US to construct a heavily armed and technologically advanced partner in the Middle East to "keep the Arabs in their place."
Hello Gregory... Post '67 War... Israel also became a Western Outpost in the Cold War ... After the Soviet Union Fell... Israel was neglected for awhile... Indeed Israel depended on American Public, an Private $$$... When Bibi came to Power, Bibi commissioned a Study for a 'New Vision' for Israel formulated by some American Jewish Neocons.... This Study Begat the Infamous 'Project For A New American Century' which Begat the 2003 Iraqi War... Bibi Is No Friend Of The USA...
May I ask you a question Helen? Of course I mean absolutely no disrespect and or malice. It's something no one seems to be able to answer. Although I have never been fired from a job I have certainly quit a few because I refused to conform or compromise my standards. No, I will not lie and no, I will not steal. I especially will not perpetrate your lies, enable your lies and or support your lies. And I certainly will not represent someone who lies.
Here's what I don't understand. Why is the Jewish community not walking away from this? What is preventing anyone from renouncing their religion? Yes I have seen the hundreds of thousands of protesters and others saying NOT IN OUR NAME but what I also see is no decline whatsoever in those who identify as being Jewish.
Yes of course I know Judaism is not Zionism but I believe the Jewish Community as a whole, as an entity, as a society, as a institution and establishment sure as hell has a helluva lot more power than we do and yet, they do nothing.
I was raised by Jews and therefore have no qualms with the Jewish Community. However when I see synagogues packed every Saturday (I live in NJ) and high Holy Days it truly sickens me.
The only thing I can do is boycott any Jewish business including my very own doctors. NOT because I am an antisemite, but rather, because I am furious as an entity you could stop this but rather just say, NOT IN OUR NAME!
What terrible thing will happen if you renounce your religion? Will you die? What is the worst thing possible if you say I REFUSE TO BE PART OF THIS RELIGION, surely it can't be anything as bad as what the Palestinians have endured for decades. What is left if there is no more Jewish Community? Seems to me the only way to destroy them is from within.
IMHO, humankind would be far better off if the Judaic/Christian/Islamic patriarchal monotheistic creeds had never been invented. But given that we are stuck with them for now--opinion polls seem to indicate younger generations losing interest in such stuff and nonsense, but I am skeptical of this--the bloodshed will continue. Israel's genocidal war against the surviving Palestinians, as I've been pointing out for some time now, simply ENSURES ongoing deadly enmity between Jews and Muslims. Everywhere, not confined to the Levant. Centuries of prejudice against Jews has resulted in a "circling of the wagons" on their part. Bernard Baruch--or was it the author Bernard Malamud??--said "If you ever forget you're a Jew, some Gentile will come along and remind you." This was quoted by Joseph Heller on frontispiece of one of his novel. I believe this atmosphere of ACTUAL antisemitism forces Jews, even secular Jews who seldom if ever attend synagogue, to feel they must defend Israel, despite the revulsion many may feel toward the crimes of Netanyahu and company. [Full disclosure: my paternal grandfather was a Jew who immigrated to USA in late 19th or early 20th Century. I have never been an "observant Jew" or adherent of any of the Abrahamic religions.]
I think it is a mistake to conflate religion with politics. You say you know the difference between Judaism and Zionism, but do you really understand that difference. One is a religion, the other is strictly a political movement using religion as weapon.
Rulers have used religion as a weapon throughout the ages, but that is no fault of the religion - nor is it good reason to abandon the religion.
The difference between Zionism and Judaism is an optical one, not to say an optical illusion. Zionism was created by and for Jews. Furthermore, the reason the zionists have been able to weaponize Judaism is because the latter offers that opportunity: what has been happening in Palestine is in accordance with what is written in the Talmud, such as all gentiles ("cattle") will have to be killed; the gentiles are on Earth to serve the Jews – the list goes on and on.
In fact, Yahweh is nothing more than a vindictive, murderous, bloodthirsty, unforgiving god.
The reason why Jews now desperately want to differentiate between the religion and zionism is because they do not want to be associated with the industrial scale butchery inflicted on the Palestinians. Yet, as BJ points out above, if they really care and feel disgusted, why do they not renounce that bloodthirsty religion?
{Yet, as BJ points out above, if they really care and feel disgusted, why do they not renounce that bloodthirsty religion?}
As you see Ngungu, no one seems to have answered this question, particularly Helen who I initially directed it at. I am not being rude nor disrespectful. I simply would like someone to kindly explain what the absolute worst possible scenario would occur?
I assume the most flippant answer might be, estrangement from your family but didn't that occur with the vaccines, as well? The Jewish community is entirely to close to go to such extremes.
But, the Zionists continue to exploit it for all it's worth. As I asked in my post, what is the worst possible scenario that could happen to anyone for renouncing their religion, but especially, if you were well aware the religion was explicitly exploited for nefarious reasons?
I'll take this a step further and this is strictly my personal opinion and nothing more. I also mean no malice as some might say I am simply stereo typing which is also not true.
Being Jewish has it's privileges. If, for nothing more, it clearly conjures up a reputation.
Many Jews will constantly play the sympathy card, claiming the entire world hates and or blames them for everything. The most profound being, the Iranians when nothing could possibly be further from the truth. In fact Israel offered the Jews in Iran $10,000 to relocate to Israel and they refuse, saying emphatically, Iran IS their home and they have never been persecuted or otherwise.
I digress, as I say being Jewish has it's privileges. You never hear anyone saying you should go to a Catholic or Muslim doctor. Being Jewish automatically elucidates being superior, which is why I believe the Jewish Community will never renounce there religion even though they know it is being exploited.
Because being Jewish certainly has it's advantages and entitlements. Support Palestine and you're an antisemite, risk losing your job, be expelled from schools and/or even be arrested. What other religion yields that magnitude of power? What other religion can take control of the entire world, the media, the financial industry and politicians?
In answer to your basic question, let me first distinguish between religion and the church. The first is a belief system, the latter is a human organization. It has been my observation of several people who have abandoned their church, that the worst that ever happened, was to suffer being ostracized by those loyal to the church and intolerant of others (including family). As an example, a Jewish girl being rejected by her parents for marrying a gentile.
Other than that, I doubt that there would be any serious consequences of any kind, and the benefits would probably outweigh any adverse effects.
Hello Helen... I've known former Israelis that are aghast at the Slaughter in Gaza... Zionism is the Founding Sin of Modern Israel... Since 87% of Modern Israel is unoccupied, there is Plenty of Land for all... I've Read that now the Desert Bedouins are now being Ethnically Displaced by the Extremist West Bank Settlers...
Me too, I have met Israelis biologists who are not racist. Amy Goodman is Jewish and her father is a rabbi, and she and others at Democracy Now! are doing a great job covering the genocide. And also not to forget that Gaza is (was?) a major stop-over for migrating birds. I fear for all the Palestinian birdwatchers and biologists. See Birding in Gaza Amid the Nightmare of War (https://www.juancole.com/2024/05/birding-gaza-nightmare.html) .
> I've known former Israelis that are aghast at the Slaughter in Gaza
It is easy to be aghast, but what have they done about it? My guess: nothing.
> Since 87% of Modern Israel is unoccupied, there is Plenty of Land for all
Plenty of land for all? As long as the genocidal sewer exists, the region will be subject to chaos, death and destruction because that is exactly what the talmudic ziofascists want, divided, steal and rule, which is also the task set for them by their Western overlords and paymasters.
Bill, you are not a Jew hater, you are an Anti-war, Anti-genocide hater. If the shoe fits, then wear it with pride and don't give a damn what the propaganda people say.
Indeed, Bill! It's the same in Canada. Fear of not showing enough guilt/shame for the Holocaust grips the West. Norman Finkelstein goes into great detail on this along with the reasons you stated- wealth/power suppresses uncomfortable truths.
Israel will forever be marked not only for the enthic cleansing that created it back in 1948 but for the genocide it inflicted thereafter. Some say Israel will never recover. I say It's the Palestinians that will never recover just like our north American Indigenous people the will be mostly erased from history and only remembered as victims of progress.
Yes, seeing and writing about reality is sickening. Writing about how we miss-attend to the world often leaves me sickened not by Jews but by homo sapiens.
Well, I imagine that's true. I just read about the Heyokas. I love the concept. I like to imagine how glorious the US natural habitat was in the days before the white man came, but at the same time it's so deeply painful. I appear to have a tiny droplet of indigenous blood from the 1700s in New York state, not that you would give a fig about it. I like it.
I don’t believe (or certainly unsure.) that there is any such thing as indigenous “blood” (looking at the issue from the point of view, of let’s say, a geneticist) but I sure do wish I could say that I had some indigenous heritage in my ancestors history.
Hello Glen... Thanks for your Sentiment... Us Indigenous are still Here... Many have adapted, and may yet survive the Homo Sapien Holocaust brought on by the Rise-Of-The-Machines...
Indeed, I thought that too after I typed my remark...Natives are on the COMEBACK in Canada, they have been winning Supreme Court Battles-rights back-land back-Truth and Recociliation is a big deal here. Not the biggest of deal that the Indigenous people deserve, but a great deal more than in the 50s 60s 70s 80s...
Our history books taught in school are being rewritten to tell about what happened-what we did to indigenous peoples. Unlike how they are being rewritten in Trumpian America.
Too much Jewish wealth supports the Israeli Lobby or turns a blind eye...while a strong less wealthy minority of Jews are some of Palestinians most ardent supporters.
The most important reason Israel gets everything it wants, Bill, is that it gets what the United States wants it to have. And none of this started with Bibi.
Since its conception, inception, and creation, Israel is now and has ever been a Strategic and Tactical Forward Operational Base for First the British and then the American Empires’ military, economic, and political interests [as in domination] in that part of the world with all its fossil fuel and other natural resources; and its strategic and tactical geographic proximity to, first, the Russian Empire, and then the USSR, and now Russia.
Does anyone actually think that Israel could or would have waged its currently 642-Day War on Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, and now Iran without the approval of ~ to say nothing of the bankrolling and supplying of weaponry and intelligence by ~ Washington?
It is also very important to remember how much money the MICIMATTT* and other elements of The Deep State are making when Israel gets all that everything.
What I don't see here are these observations about the very REAL antisemitism of the Trump administration: 1.) Who is Paul Ingrassia? A young punk (age 30), only a lawyer for one year, is appointed to oversee Office of the Special Counsel (to POTUS) to investigate "ethics violations" (but not of Trump or other GOPers of course). His background, per MSM? A far-right internet personality who has promoted "conspiracy theories" (a flaming oxymoron BTW) AND the rantings of a HOLOCAUST DENIER!!! Isn't that interesting?; 2.) Just the other day, Trump publicly used the term "shylock." He pleaded innocence about that having been a slur against Jews ("money-grubbing exploiters") for centuries. And that Trump statement is plausible--what a rarity!--because one can't expect this ignorant uncultured man to be aware of Mr. Shakespeare's "The Merchant of Venice."; 3.) Trump's former "bromance" partner, Mr. Musk, launched a "chatbot" program which reportedly advocates applying "Hitler's approach" to dealing with Jews today. Yeah, the Trump administration is chock full of "Jew lovers"!!
It is not possible to be a "holocaust denier" when there never was one, there is literally no proof. It is possible, however, to be a holocaust liar.
The moniker "Shylock" is a slur against Jews? Really? There is plenty of evidence that what interests most Jews is money, just like it did Shylock. Funny how an uncomfortable truth about Jews is immediately weaponized into "anti-Semitism" instead of refuting the moniker with real arguments.
BTW, the Jews love their "anti-Semitism" (a ridiculous term anyway because Semites as a race do not exist), they could not live without it because they could play the victims and thus employ their extortion racket.
Hello, troll! Are you a real person or an AI program developed by Elon Musk?? Your ignorance is stunning, but what impressed me most was your being unaware that Jews AND Arabs are all SEMITES. This is just an added layer to the thick irony of people being accused of this false "antisemitism" for criticizing the murderous deeds of the current Israeli regime. But of course your ilk are doubtless incapable of appreciating IRONY. Have a nice day!! :-)
Sorry pal, Jews and Arabs are not Semites as there is no Semite ethnicity. There are Semitic languages, to which both Hebrew and Arabic belong, among a number of other languages. Look it up and educate yourself.
If I misunderstood you irony, well, that's a 2-way street. Your message did not across as intended (your shortcoming), I did not bother to ask for clarification (my shortcoming).
I have no trouble admitting my shortcoming, do you have the same courage?
Well, you have already soiled yourself, so your last comment will not cleanse you. Thanks for your implicit confirmation that you are incapable of a discussion, esp. when your shortcomings are exposed. Poor thing.
"We used to have the “America, love it or leave it” crowd. Now we have the “Israel, love it—or else” crowd. In America!"
US Politicians sold their souls to Israel-AIPAC for MONEY.
Then the devil takes him up to the holy city, and sets him on a pinnacle of the temple, and says to him, If you be the Son of God, cast yourself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning you: and in their hands they shall bear you up, lest at any time you dash your foot against a stone.
Jesus said to him, It is written again, You shall not tempt the Lord your God.
Again, the devil takes him up into an exceeding high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
And said to him, All these things will I give you, if you will fall down and worship me.
Then Jesus said to him, Get outta here, Satan: for it is written, You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.
Then the devil leaves him, and, behold, angels came and ministered to him.
You see progress, Bill, that people are onto the game? In all seriousness, please, tell me why you're encouraged. I haven't seen this, and I could sure use a good word.
I was thinking here of articles written by Caitlin Johnstone, especially the increasing desperation of the Israeli and U.S. governments in trying to stamp out dissent even as the "official" stories become less and less plausible (not that they ever were that plausible).
The problem, of course, is that we the people have little say and virtually no power. It's the zealots in charge--at least for now.
Yes, it does seem that there is an enormous effort to stamp out dissent, amid cratering plausibility. However, that effort seems to be pretty effective thus far.
Meanwhile, Bibi, like the cornered rat he is (although the comparison is unfair to rats) is becoming ever more desperate. If what I read is accurate, he's raining down more and more hell on Gaza, while lashing out at Iran and others. I don’t know what the solution is, but I fear that, by the time Bibi and Rump are stopped---if ever---their frenzy to stamp out dissent will have laid waste to both the U S. and parts of the Middke East.
Hello Bill... This a Brave Posting... Thanks for your Courage... The Indigenous Participation in OUR Armed-Forces is 5x the National Average... 1-out-4 of the Trigger Pullers in the Spec-Ops Units are Indigenous... I'm not Anti-Semitic, but their Participation Rate is What?...
> People call you names when they can’t think of intelligent and persuasive ways of challenging your arguments.
It boils down to that, you nailed it. Deep down, that crowd knows "israel" has and always will lack legitimacy because it was created on stolen land and it has been carrying out a genocide and ethnic cleansing that makes the German Nazis look like choir boys in comparison.
The fact is that "israel" should not even exist, it should be wiped off the map.
Hey, Bill, at least you are in good company! That people don't take the time to learn that Judaism and Zionism are two different things is beyond ignorant.
Thanks for the link. I have great respect for Norman Finkelstein (NF), though I do not always agree with him.
To get back to your original point that Judaism and zionism are 2 different things, is spurious.
Zionism was a Jewish project and still is, so right there the link between the political concept and the religion stands.
NF states that "israel" is a Jewish supremacist state, and he makes it sound as if it evolved into that. No, it did not evolve into that, it was always meant to be a Jew supremacist state, and literally anything was foreseen by the zionists to ensure its Jewish supremacy, incl. ethnic cleansing and industrial scale slaughter of the Palestinians.
What has happened is that between 1982 and today the true nature of that project has been exposed to full daylight. This exposing was a gradual process, and as more uncomfortable facts became know, the zio state needed justification, hence the "bible", in particular the Talmud, which essentially approves everything the genocidal sewer has done since its creation, even the events since 7 Oct. 2023. The Talmud even prescribes that Jewish supremacy be exercised.
So, can you explain why zionism and Judaism should be understood as 2 strictly separate concepts?
Because all Christians are not Christian fundamentalists, all Muslims are not radical Muslims, all Jews are not Zionists, and it is ridiculous to use the Bible or the Talmud or the Koran to set governmental policies. Christian Zionists in the Trump administration are looking to make the US into a theocracy, even though they abhor the ayatollah in Iran. I live in a mostly Jewish neighborhood (although I am not Jewish), and my neighbors are anti-Zionist.
True, but all zionists are Jews. I am leaving aside the Christian zionists because that is an artificial, opportunistic construct that bought their way into the narrative.
Tell me something: how many of those Jewish anti-Zionists are anti-"israel", i.e. how many of them are of the opinion that the genocidal apartheid sewer should not exist. I bet very very few of them.
Tell me another thing: how many of those anti-zionists do not see the Jews as superior to the rest of humanity? I bet very very few of them. Why else do you think the German zionists in 1933-45 Germany got on so well with the Aryan supremacist Nazis?
So, it is all very well to be Jewish and anti-zionist, but in practice most of them (note: I do not say ALL of them) are Jew supremacists who are "anti-zionist" only because they are upset that the sewer has exposed its and their [the so-called anti-zionists] true nature so blatantly. I grant you that some of those "anti-zionists" aren't even aware of their own true racist nature.
They seriously do not realize how they are DIMINISHING efforts to dispel anti-semitism by throwing the charge around willy-nilly and indiscriminately. But, they don’t really care about the welfare of Jews the world over. Donald certainly doesn’t. Neither does BIBI. If he did, he would not have enabled HAMAS for years and failed to protect his citizens from the October attack that he used as an excuse to start with the horrors he has inflicted on GAZA ever since.
The rank and disgusting cynicism of these monsters astounds me! True lovers of humanity — hell, of life on our planet — would never behave like Bibi and The Donald. Or their minions.
> They seriously do not realize how they are DIMINISHING efforts to dispel anti-semitism ...
Why does anti-semitism per se need to be expelled?
Why do not ALL forms of racism need to be expelled?
Why do the Jews differentiate between their beloved anti-semitism and racism against other groups?
Why do the Jews refuse to unite with other minorities to fight ALL forms of racism together.
The answer to all those questions is simple: the Jews want to be given priority because as Chosenites they see themselves as the most important group in the world, superior to the rest of humanity.
> .... failed to protect his citizens from the October attack ....
The October attack was part of the plan, except that it backfired horribly. Hamas went rogue, i.e. did not follow Satanyahu's script anymore, so he had to use the Hannibal Directive. Yes, Pat, the overwhelming majority of "israelis" killed that day were slaughtered by their own army.
Bill, there's something very dark at work here and I agree with you it's more than AIPAC money and the Christian Evangelicals pushing for the End Times.
U.S. Presidents and Congresses had pushed back on Israeli barbarism and overreach. But in the last 30 years that has all but disappeared. The combined influence of CIA/Mossad, since Netanyahu came to power, has grown out of control (it was said Trump was briefed by Mossad before the U.S. strike on Iran).
Their methods are well known: bribes, blackmail, and murder (of relatives).
Hello TomR, Bill A.... Read the Book by John Mearshiemer, and Stephen Walt, titled the "Israel Lobby"... It came out in 2005, it is dated but still relevant... Bibi came into Power in the Mid-'90s... Bibi's influence is Nefarious.... All Roads Lead To Bibi...
Yup. Aware of that book, and that was my point - whatever Israel was, it descended another circle of Hell since Netanyahu came to power.
If there was no crude oil under Middle East sands, the only motivation for USA to have advocated for the founding of the Israeli State in 1948 would have been to encourage Jews on US soil to leave!! One of the truest observations on politico-economics I've ever encountered--I can't even say how many decades ago--is this: "The United States has no permanent friends, only permanent interests." And since oil is such an indispensable commodity, it has benefitted the US to construct a heavily armed and technologically advanced partner in the Middle East to "keep the Arabs in their place."
Hello Gregory... Post '67 War... Israel also became a Western Outpost in the Cold War ... After the Soviet Union Fell... Israel was neglected for awhile... Indeed Israel depended on American Public, an Private $$$... When Bibi came to Power, Bibi commissioned a Study for a 'New Vision' for Israel formulated by some American Jewish Neocons.... This Study Begat the Infamous 'Project For A New American Century' which Begat the 2003 Iraqi War... Bibi Is No Friend Of The USA...
As an anti-Zionist supporter of "free Palestine!", I am a proudly "self-hating" secular Jewish American then.
May I ask you a question Helen? Of course I mean absolutely no disrespect and or malice. It's something no one seems to be able to answer. Although I have never been fired from a job I have certainly quit a few because I refused to conform or compromise my standards. No, I will not lie and no, I will not steal. I especially will not perpetrate your lies, enable your lies and or support your lies. And I certainly will not represent someone who lies.
Here's what I don't understand. Why is the Jewish community not walking away from this? What is preventing anyone from renouncing their religion? Yes I have seen the hundreds of thousands of protesters and others saying NOT IN OUR NAME but what I also see is no decline whatsoever in those who identify as being Jewish.
Yes of course I know Judaism is not Zionism but I believe the Jewish Community as a whole, as an entity, as a society, as a institution and establishment sure as hell has a helluva lot more power than we do and yet, they do nothing.
I was raised by Jews and therefore have no qualms with the Jewish Community. However when I see synagogues packed every Saturday (I live in NJ) and high Holy Days it truly sickens me.
The only thing I can do is boycott any Jewish business including my very own doctors. NOT because I am an antisemite, but rather, because I am furious as an entity you could stop this but rather just say, NOT IN OUR NAME!
What terrible thing will happen if you renounce your religion? Will you die? What is the worst thing possible if you say I REFUSE TO BE PART OF THIS RELIGION, surely it can't be anything as bad as what the Palestinians have endured for decades. What is left if there is no more Jewish Community? Seems to me the only way to destroy them is from within.
IMHO, humankind would be far better off if the Judaic/Christian/Islamic patriarchal monotheistic creeds had never been invented. But given that we are stuck with them for now--opinion polls seem to indicate younger generations losing interest in such stuff and nonsense, but I am skeptical of this--the bloodshed will continue. Israel's genocidal war against the surviving Palestinians, as I've been pointing out for some time now, simply ENSURES ongoing deadly enmity between Jews and Muslims. Everywhere, not confined to the Levant. Centuries of prejudice against Jews has resulted in a "circling of the wagons" on their part. Bernard Baruch--or was it the author Bernard Malamud??--said "If you ever forget you're a Jew, some Gentile will come along and remind you." This was quoted by Joseph Heller on frontispiece of one of his novel. I believe this atmosphere of ACTUAL antisemitism forces Jews, even secular Jews who seldom if ever attend synagogue, to feel they must defend Israel, despite the revulsion many may feel toward the crimes of Netanyahu and company. [Full disclosure: my paternal grandfather was a Jew who immigrated to USA in late 19th or early 20th Century. I have never been an "observant Jew" or adherent of any of the Abrahamic religions.]
I think it is a mistake to conflate religion with politics. You say you know the difference between Judaism and Zionism, but do you really understand that difference. One is a religion, the other is strictly a political movement using religion as weapon.
Rulers have used religion as a weapon throughout the ages, but that is no fault of the religion - nor is it good reason to abandon the religion.
The difference between Zionism and Judaism is an optical one, not to say an optical illusion. Zionism was created by and for Jews. Furthermore, the reason the zionists have been able to weaponize Judaism is because the latter offers that opportunity: what has been happening in Palestine is in accordance with what is written in the Talmud, such as all gentiles ("cattle") will have to be killed; the gentiles are on Earth to serve the Jews – the list goes on and on.
In fact, Yahweh is nothing more than a vindictive, murderous, bloodthirsty, unforgiving god.
The reason why Jews now desperately want to differentiate between the religion and zionism is because they do not want to be associated with the industrial scale butchery inflicted on the Palestinians. Yet, as BJ points out above, if they really care and feel disgusted, why do they not renounce that bloodthirsty religion?
{Yet, as BJ points out above, if they really care and feel disgusted, why do they not renounce that bloodthirsty religion?}
As you see Ngungu, no one seems to have answered this question, particularly Helen who I initially directed it at. I am not being rude nor disrespectful. I simply would like someone to kindly explain what the absolute worst possible scenario would occur?
I assume the most flippant answer might be, estrangement from your family but didn't that occur with the vaccines, as well? The Jewish community is entirely to close to go to such extremes.
But, the Zionists continue to exploit it for all it's worth. As I asked in my post, what is the worst possible scenario that could happen to anyone for renouncing their religion, but especially, if you were well aware the religion was explicitly exploited for nefarious reasons?
I'll take this a step further and this is strictly my personal opinion and nothing more. I also mean no malice as some might say I am simply stereo typing which is also not true.
Being Jewish has it's privileges. If, for nothing more, it clearly conjures up a reputation.
Many Jews will constantly play the sympathy card, claiming the entire world hates and or blames them for everything. The most profound being, the Iranians when nothing could possibly be further from the truth. In fact Israel offered the Jews in Iran $10,000 to relocate to Israel and they refuse, saying emphatically, Iran IS their home and they have never been persecuted or otherwise.
I digress, as I say being Jewish has it's privileges. You never hear anyone saying you should go to a Catholic or Muslim doctor. Being Jewish automatically elucidates being superior, which is why I believe the Jewish Community will never renounce there religion even though they know it is being exploited.
Because being Jewish certainly has it's advantages and entitlements. Support Palestine and you're an antisemite, risk losing your job, be expelled from schools and/or even be arrested. What other religion yields that magnitude of power? What other religion can take control of the entire world, the media, the financial industry and politicians?
In answer to your basic question, let me first distinguish between religion and the church. The first is a belief system, the latter is a human organization. It has been my observation of several people who have abandoned their church, that the worst that ever happened, was to suffer being ostracized by those loyal to the church and intolerant of others (including family). As an example, a Jewish girl being rejected by her parents for marrying a gentile.
Other than that, I doubt that there would be any serious consequences of any kind, and the benefits would probably outweigh any adverse effects.
Cheers
Hello Helen... I've known former Israelis that are aghast at the Slaughter in Gaza... Zionism is the Founding Sin of Modern Israel... Since 87% of Modern Israel is unoccupied, there is Plenty of Land for all... I've Read that now the Desert Bedouins are now being Ethnically Displaced by the Extremist West Bank Settlers...
Me too, I have met Israelis biologists who are not racist. Amy Goodman is Jewish and her father is a rabbi, and she and others at Democracy Now! are doing a great job covering the genocide. And also not to forget that Gaza is (was?) a major stop-over for migrating birds. I fear for all the Palestinian birdwatchers and biologists. See Birding in Gaza Amid the Nightmare of War (https://www.juancole.com/2024/05/birding-gaza-nightmare.html) .
> I've known former Israelis that are aghast at the Slaughter in Gaza
It is easy to be aghast, but what have they done about it? My guess: nothing.
> Since 87% of Modern Israel is unoccupied, there is Plenty of Land for all
Plenty of land for all? As long as the genocidal sewer exists, the region will be subject to chaos, death and destruction because that is exactly what the talmudic ziofascists want, divided, steal and rule, which is also the task set for them by their Western overlords and paymasters.
Bill, you are not a Jew hater, you are an Anti-war, Anti-genocide hater. If the shoe fits, then wear it with pride and don't give a damn what the propaganda people say.
Keep telling the truth Bill.
Double yawn....
Perfectly put. Short and succinct. I'll be forwarding out this article.
(The only percentage "subservient to Bibi", or any other genocide-r, that any human being should be is... ZERO.)
Indeed, Bill! It's the same in Canada. Fear of not showing enough guilt/shame for the Holocaust grips the West. Norman Finkelstein goes into great detail on this along with the reasons you stated- wealth/power suppresses uncomfortable truths.
Hello Glen... As Chris Hedges said, the Israel Lobby which includes the Big MSM, Finance, and Entertainment, has Weaponized the Holocaust....
Israel will forever be marked not only for the enthic cleansing that created it back in 1948 but for the genocide it inflicted thereafter. Some say Israel will never recover. I say It's the Palestinians that will never recover just like our north American Indigenous people the will be mostly erased from history and only remembered as victims of progress.
Deeply tragic and true.
Yes, seeing and writing about reality is sickening. Writing about how we miss-attend to the world often leaves me sickened not by Jews but by homo sapiens.
We're definitely not evolving fast enough. It will be mostly ruined before then.
Hello Francis/Clare... The 'Heyoka' says that the most Dangerous Place to be a Jew, is Israel... The Safest Place is the USA... That is Cruel Irony...
Well, I imagine that's true. I just read about the Heyokas. I love the concept. I like to imagine how glorious the US natural habitat was in the days before the white man came, but at the same time it's so deeply painful. I appear to have a tiny droplet of indigenous blood from the 1700s in New York state, not that you would give a fig about it. I like it.
Hello Francis/Clare... What is most Important, is Where Your Heart Is, and What Your Deeds Are...
I live in upstate New York as well
I don’t believe (or certainly unsure.) that there is any such thing as indigenous “blood” (looking at the issue from the point of view, of let’s say, a geneticist) but I sure do wish I could say that I had some indigenous heritage in my ancestors history.
Hello Glen... Thanks for your Sentiment... Us Indigenous are still Here... Many have adapted, and may yet survive the Homo Sapien Holocaust brought on by the Rise-Of-The-Machines...
Indeed, I thought that too after I typed my remark...Natives are on the COMEBACK in Canada, they have been winning Supreme Court Battles-rights back-land back-Truth and Recociliation is a big deal here. Not the biggest of deal that the Indigenous people deserve, but a great deal more than in the 50s 60s 70s 80s...
Our history books taught in school are being rewritten to tell about what happened-what we did to indigenous peoples. Unlike how they are being rewritten in Trumpian America.
Too much Jewish wealth supports the Israeli Lobby or turns a blind eye...while a strong less wealthy minority of Jews are some of Palestinians most ardent supporters.
And to think the holocaust is nothing but a hoax ...
I'll call you a name, Bill. YOU'RE A TRUTH LOVER! There . . . I've said it. Deal with it.
The most important reason Israel gets everything it wants, Bill, is that it gets what the United States wants it to have. And none of this started with Bibi.
Since its conception, inception, and creation, Israel is now and has ever been a Strategic and Tactical Forward Operational Base for First the British and then the American Empires’ military, economic, and political interests [as in domination] in that part of the world with all its fossil fuel and other natural resources; and its strategic and tactical geographic proximity to, first, the Russian Empire, and then the USSR, and now Russia.
Does anyone actually think that Israel could or would have waged its currently 642-Day War on Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, and now Iran without the approval of ~ to say nothing of the bankrolling and supplying of weaponry and intelligence by ~ Washington?
It is also very important to remember how much money the MICIMATTT* and other elements of The Deep State are making when Israel gets all that everything.
* The third “T” is for “Tech.”
What I don't see here are these observations about the very REAL antisemitism of the Trump administration: 1.) Who is Paul Ingrassia? A young punk (age 30), only a lawyer for one year, is appointed to oversee Office of the Special Counsel (to POTUS) to investigate "ethics violations" (but not of Trump or other GOPers of course). His background, per MSM? A far-right internet personality who has promoted "conspiracy theories" (a flaming oxymoron BTW) AND the rantings of a HOLOCAUST DENIER!!! Isn't that interesting?; 2.) Just the other day, Trump publicly used the term "shylock." He pleaded innocence about that having been a slur against Jews ("money-grubbing exploiters") for centuries. And that Trump statement is plausible--what a rarity!--because one can't expect this ignorant uncultured man to be aware of Mr. Shakespeare's "The Merchant of Venice."; 3.) Trump's former "bromance" partner, Mr. Musk, launched a "chatbot" program which reportedly advocates applying "Hitler's approach" to dealing with Jews today. Yeah, the Trump administration is chock full of "Jew lovers"!!
It is not possible to be a "holocaust denier" when there never was one, there is literally no proof. It is possible, however, to be a holocaust liar.
The moniker "Shylock" is a slur against Jews? Really? There is plenty of evidence that what interests most Jews is money, just like it did Shylock. Funny how an uncomfortable truth about Jews is immediately weaponized into "anti-Semitism" instead of refuting the moniker with real arguments.
BTW, the Jews love their "anti-Semitism" (a ridiculous term anyway because Semites as a race do not exist), they could not live without it because they could play the victims and thus employ their extortion racket.
Hello, troll! Are you a real person or an AI program developed by Elon Musk?? Your ignorance is stunning, but what impressed me most was your being unaware that Jews AND Arabs are all SEMITES. This is just an added layer to the thick irony of people being accused of this false "antisemitism" for criticizing the murderous deeds of the current Israeli regime. But of course your ilk are doubtless incapable of appreciating IRONY. Have a nice day!! :-)
Sorry pal, Jews and Arabs are not Semites as there is no Semite ethnicity. There are Semitic languages, to which both Hebrew and Arabic belong, among a number of other languages. Look it up and educate yourself.
If I misunderstood you irony, well, that's a 2-way street. Your message did not across as intended (your shortcoming), I did not bother to ask for clarification (my shortcoming).
I have no trouble admitting my shortcoming, do you have the same courage?
I will not soil myself by engaging in any further exchanges with you, be you a person or a microchip. End of story.
Well, you have already soiled yourself, so your last comment will not cleanse you. Thanks for your implicit confirmation that you are incapable of a discussion, esp. when your shortcomings are exposed. Poor thing.
"We used to have the “America, love it or leave it” crowd. Now we have the “Israel, love it—or else” crowd. In America!"
US Politicians sold their souls to Israel-AIPAC for MONEY.
Then the devil takes him up to the holy city, and sets him on a pinnacle of the temple, and says to him, If you be the Son of God, cast yourself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning you: and in their hands they shall bear you up, lest at any time you dash your foot against a stone.
Jesus said to him, It is written again, You shall not tempt the Lord your God.
Again, the devil takes him up into an exceeding high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
And said to him, All these things will I give you, if you will fall down and worship me.
Then Jesus said to him, Get outta here, Satan: for it is written, You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.
Then the devil leaves him, and, behold, angels came and ministered to him.
https://rayjc.com/2011/05/08/angels-to-the-rescue/
Lessor Mortals wouldn't have that strength of Spirit, taking much smaller portions than that offer!
You see progress, Bill, that people are onto the game? In all seriousness, please, tell me why you're encouraged. I haven't seen this, and I could sure use a good word.
I was thinking here of articles written by Caitlin Johnstone, especially the increasing desperation of the Israeli and U.S. governments in trying to stamp out dissent even as the "official" stories become less and less plausible (not that they ever were that plausible).
The problem, of course, is that we the people have little say and virtually no power. It's the zealots in charge--at least for now.
That's a discouraging word--sorry!
Dear Caitlin is controlled opposition: full of criticism of "israel" but ferocious against the slightest criticism of the Jews.
Yes, it does seem that there is an enormous effort to stamp out dissent, amid cratering plausibility. However, that effort seems to be pretty effective thus far.
Meanwhile, Bibi, like the cornered rat he is (although the comparison is unfair to rats) is becoming ever more desperate. If what I read is accurate, he's raining down more and more hell on Gaza, while lashing out at Iran and others. I don’t know what the solution is, but I fear that, by the time Bibi and Rump are stopped---if ever---their frenzy to stamp out dissent will have laid waste to both the U S. and parts of the Middke East.
Hello Bill... This a Brave Posting... Thanks for your Courage... The Indigenous Participation in OUR Armed-Forces is 5x the National Average... 1-out-4 of the Trigger Pullers in the Spec-Ops Units are Indigenous... I'm not Anti-Semitic, but their Participation Rate is What?...
> People call you names when they can’t think of intelligent and persuasive ways of challenging your arguments.
It boils down to that, you nailed it. Deep down, that crowd knows "israel" has and always will lack legitimacy because it was created on stolen land and it has been carrying out a genocide and ethnic cleansing that makes the German Nazis look like choir boys in comparison.
The fact is that "israel" should not even exist, it should be wiped off the map.
Hey, Bill, at least you are in good company! That people don't take the time to learn that Judaism and Zionism are two different things is beyond ignorant.
In fact, people who try to keep those terms separate are doing exactly what the Jews want them to do, and that is the real ignorance.
Zionism follows almost to the letter of what is written in the Talmud.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPByTV162nE
A brief history of Zionism with Professor Norman Finkelstein.
Thanks for the link. I have great respect for Norman Finkelstein (NF), though I do not always agree with him.
To get back to your original point that Judaism and zionism are 2 different things, is spurious.
Zionism was a Jewish project and still is, so right there the link between the political concept and the religion stands.
NF states that "israel" is a Jewish supremacist state, and he makes it sound as if it evolved into that. No, it did not evolve into that, it was always meant to be a Jew supremacist state, and literally anything was foreseen by the zionists to ensure its Jewish supremacy, incl. ethnic cleansing and industrial scale slaughter of the Palestinians.
What has happened is that between 1982 and today the true nature of that project has been exposed to full daylight. This exposing was a gradual process, and as more uncomfortable facts became know, the zio state needed justification, hence the "bible", in particular the Talmud, which essentially approves everything the genocidal sewer has done since its creation, even the events since 7 Oct. 2023. The Talmud even prescribes that Jewish supremacy be exercised.
So, can you explain why zionism and Judaism should be understood as 2 strictly separate concepts?
Because all Christians are not Christian fundamentalists, all Muslims are not radical Muslims, all Jews are not Zionists, and it is ridiculous to use the Bible or the Talmud or the Koran to set governmental policies. Christian Zionists in the Trump administration are looking to make the US into a theocracy, even though they abhor the ayatollah in Iran. I live in a mostly Jewish neighborhood (although I am not Jewish), and my neighbors are anti-Zionist.
> ... all Jews are not Zionists
True, but all zionists are Jews. I am leaving aside the Christian zionists because that is an artificial, opportunistic construct that bought their way into the narrative.
Tell me something: how many of those Jewish anti-Zionists are anti-"israel", i.e. how many of them are of the opinion that the genocidal apartheid sewer should not exist. I bet very very few of them.
Tell me another thing: how many of those anti-zionists do not see the Jews as superior to the rest of humanity? I bet very very few of them. Why else do you think the German zionists in 1933-45 Germany got on so well with the Aryan supremacist Nazis?
So, it is all very well to be Jewish and anti-zionist, but in practice most of them (note: I do not say ALL of them) are Jew supremacists who are "anti-zionist" only because they are upset that the sewer has exposed its and their [the so-called anti-zionists] true nature so blatantly. I grant you that some of those "anti-zionists" aren't even aware of their own true racist nature.
You are choosing hate, and there is no rational response that will convince you otherwise.
They seriously do not realize how they are DIMINISHING efforts to dispel anti-semitism by throwing the charge around willy-nilly and indiscriminately. But, they don’t really care about the welfare of Jews the world over. Donald certainly doesn’t. Neither does BIBI. If he did, he would not have enabled HAMAS for years and failed to protect his citizens from the October attack that he used as an excuse to start with the horrors he has inflicted on GAZA ever since.
The rank and disgusting cynicism of these monsters astounds me! True lovers of humanity — hell, of life on our planet — would never behave like Bibi and The Donald. Or their minions.
Never!
> They seriously do not realize how they are DIMINISHING efforts to dispel anti-semitism ...
Why does anti-semitism per se need to be expelled?
Why do not ALL forms of racism need to be expelled?
Why do the Jews differentiate between their beloved anti-semitism and racism against other groups?
Why do the Jews refuse to unite with other minorities to fight ALL forms of racism together.
The answer to all those questions is simple: the Jews want to be given priority because as Chosenites they see themselves as the most important group in the world, superior to the rest of humanity.
> .... failed to protect his citizens from the October attack ....
The October attack was part of the plan, except that it backfired horribly. Hamas went rogue, i.e. did not follow Satanyahu's script anymore, so he had to use the Hannibal Directive. Yes, Pat, the overwhelming majority of "israelis" killed that day were slaughtered by their own army.