Politicians should stop tossing around the words "treason" and "traitor". Snowden didn't try to overthrow the government. Ditto for the word "enemy". We aren't at war with anyone. At least not as Congress has declared war, which as I recall it hasn't done since 1941.
You are correct, Alex. Every US military action since 1941 has been "extra-Constitutional." But of course wars were rebranded as "UN operations" (Korea), mere "military assistance" to maintain a supposedly "democratic" regime (dictators in Sai Gon, etc.). Yep, the wonderful World of Marketing!
Yes, that bothersome Constitution has been set aside in so many ways, the requirement for declaring war a big one. Now, Trump is ignoring it in his press to get rid of the part that specifically states that anyone born in the US is a citizen. But it is the Supreme Court, the interpreter of the Constitution that has really lead the way in making it meaningless with such nonsense as declaring money to be speech and freeing business to spend unlimited amounts of money on election campaigns. We are seeing the result and, as expected, it mocks the idea of democracy as it subverts it.
It's an obscene shame that the only place Snowden could and can find sanctuary and protection from assassination by the US Government was and remains in Russia.
No one should be branded a traitor who has the good sense and who is willing to put their lives at risk in the service of letting us know we are being spied on by the people whose salaries we pay. I have always been grateful for the service Snowden provided us.
How Government treats Whistleblowers is an important test determining its sworn duty to protect us. Failure to protect and promote Whistleblowers means they don't represent us.
I'd be curious how many among those Senators questioning Tulsi Gabbard take 'contributions' (aka bribes) from the companies that are funded by the US intel agencies.
Their hypocrisy can sometimes be subtle - sometimes hysterically overt (as it was with Warren questioning RFK).
Unfortunately, he has suffered the alternative definition of "turnkey" which is suffering by "an instrument with a hinged claw, used for extracting teeth with a twist."
SURVEILLANCE FLIP-FLOP COULD SINK TULSI GABBARD’S NOMINATION [Extract]
WHEN GABBARD REPRESENTED HAWAII IN THE HOUSE, SHE REPEATEDLY SPOKE OUT AGAINST SECTION 702. In May 2020, she voted against renewing the authority because the reauthorization bill did not have the alterations to the statute she was looking for. “None of the reforms protect the American people from illegal warrantless surveillance. None of the reforms prevent the secret FISA Court from abusing the constitutional rights of Americans. None of the reforms provide real protection against surveillance orders targeted at activities protected under the First Amendment,” she said at the time. Months later, she sponsored a bill to repeal the authority altogether that also would have forced the director of national intelligence and attorney general to destroy any data collected on an American under Section 702, so long as it is not related to an ongoing investigation.
BUT SHE CHANGED COURSE ON THE LAW AFTER TRUMP NAMED HER AS HIS PICK TO BE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE, telling Punchbowl News she will “uphold Americans’ Fourth Amendment rights while maintaining vital national security tools like Section 702.” In her flip, GABBARD CITED UNSPECIFIED RECENT REFORMS THAT CONGRESS had made to the surveillance authority. “My prior concerns about FISA were based on insufficient protections for civil liberties, particularly regarding the FBI’s misuse of warrantless search powers on American citizens. Significant FISA reforms have been enacted since my time in Congress to address these issues,” she told Punchbowl.
*** Note: Those “recent reforms” are still unspecified.
Along with this astute assessment I like to suggest reading Patrick Lawrence’s excellent article on Liberalism in the current CONSORTIUM NEWS edition. Readers on the so-called liberal political spectrum seem to overlook the fact that much of the surveillance problem was caused by the liberal establishment. I get the impression that the “old liberal” values have died.
Karl: Can You be more specific as to exactly how “much of the surveillance problem was caused by the liberal establishment”?
Was any of it caused by the conservative establishment? And how about the NEOliberal and NEOconservative establishments? Think those folks had anything to do with it; especially since 9/11?
Also, when You speak of “old liberal values” that have died, When did they die, Who and/or What killed them, and Who were the last champions of those old values?
And finally, where do the Classical ~ as opposed to Economic or Social ~ Liberal Values of Locke, Smith, Paine, and some of America’s Founding Fathers fit in to all this?
JG, a number of questions that would demand quite a lot of time to answer in depth. From my perspective the problem began big time with the mostly advocated phony Russiagate story advanced by the democratic establishment in 2016/17 and onward. It is still pushed by certain elements.
The problem of the what I call death of “old style” liberalism began with the disastrous presidential candidacy of George McGovern in 1972. Someone could argue that is older than that. For me the watershed was the Clinton presidency. From then on it accelerated to where we are today. America’s descent was made worse with the success of the ideologies of neoconservatism and neoliberalism. It affected not only the USA but also the EU countries. Germany, England and France, to name the most prominent, have descended into a form liberal fascism; I am aware of this being an oxymoron. The lack of freedom that is currently experienced under supposedly “liberal” EU governments is scary. I just finished reading a memoir of a Chinese-German journalist who had worked all her adult life as a journalist for Deutsche Welle (DW). She titled her autobiography ONLY THE RIGHT OPINION IS FREE (NUR DIE RICHTIGE MEINUNG IST FREI, Danhong Zang). In the last few years it got so bad that she returned to China after thirty plus years of living in Germany.
Where do those old giants of liberalism like Locke, Paine, J.S. Mill … fit in all of this? They don’t. Their values evolved out of a society steeped in ecclesiastical superstition and political authoritarianism. I think they would reject what modern liberalism has become.
I listened to her giving interviews. She doesn’t paint a rosy picture of “Chinese” freedom, but she did say that she discovered that there is less interference than in Germany. I have heard similar remarks from other westerners who live in China. There are certain taboo subjects like the political role of the CCP.
What you say about the classical liberals, I agree with you completely.
Because RFK Jr. is so clearly a nutcase, I think his confirmation by full Senate may not happen. As for Gabbard, Dems hate her for jumping on Trump bandwagon, and many in GOP will continue to call her "a Russian asset." So Trump may not get his way in her case, either. Mr. Snowden vanished from MSM a long, long time ago. I hope he's living well in Mother Russia! My visit to Moscow coincided with time Snowden was holed up in limbo at the airport, but of course I had no opportunity to meet him and shake his hand, which I certainly would have sought to do.
Everything in D.C. seems to be classified secret. And then there is the Constitution, where the government is set forth as a product of We the People. A lot of those Senators need to go back to school.
I had a Top Secret clearance when I was in the Navy. The numbers of those with TS in the military and government were relatively small.
Now the numbers are in the millions in both government and private companies. It has created a system where over classification isn't a bug, it's a feature. The US has become a modern version of a Kafka novel where everything is hidden.
We the people meant wealthy, white men only. Back then only wealthy, white, property owning men could vote. Women were property. POC were only considered 3/5 human. The "founders" we're genocidal British oligarchs.
Snowden also revealed some of the illegal surveillance being carried out in my homeland, Britain, and that American intelligence agencies sought advice from their British equivalents. Snowden is both a patriot and a hero. He understands that patriotism doesn’t consist of waving a flag but of questioning your government and asserting the rights guaranteed to us by the constitution.
Politicians should stop tossing around the words "treason" and "traitor". Snowden didn't try to overthrow the government. Ditto for the word "enemy". We aren't at war with anyone. At least not as Congress has declared war, which as I recall it hasn't done since 1941.
You are correct, Alex. Every US military action since 1941 has been "extra-Constitutional." But of course wars were rebranded as "UN operations" (Korea), mere "military assistance" to maintain a supposedly "democratic" regime (dictators in Sai Gon, etc.). Yep, the wonderful World of Marketing!
Yes, that bothersome Constitution has been set aside in so many ways, the requirement for declaring war a big one. Now, Trump is ignoring it in his press to get rid of the part that specifically states that anyone born in the US is a citizen. But it is the Supreme Court, the interpreter of the Constitution that has really lead the way in making it meaningless with such nonsense as declaring money to be speech and freeing business to spend unlimited amounts of money on election campaigns. We are seeing the result and, as expected, it mocks the idea of democracy as it subverts it.
It's an obscene shame that the only place Snowden could and can find sanctuary and protection from assassination by the US Government was and remains in Russia.
Just this week, a politician was using the propaganda that Snowden chose to go to Russia.
No one should be branded a traitor who has the good sense and who is willing to put their lives at risk in the service of letting us know we are being spied on by the people whose salaries we pay. I have always been grateful for the service Snowden provided us.
How Government treats Whistleblowers is an important test determining its sworn duty to protect us. Failure to protect and promote Whistleblowers means they don't represent us.
This Nation could definitely use and desperately needs a whole Army of Edward Snowdens.
And a bunch of Julian Assanges, as well.
And Chelsea Mannings.
And Chelsea Mannings, for sure. And Daniel Ellsbergs, while we're at it.
I'd be curious how many among those Senators questioning Tulsi Gabbard take 'contributions' (aka bribes) from the companies that are funded by the US intel agencies.
Their hypocrisy can sometimes be subtle - sometimes hysterically overt (as it was with Warren questioning RFK).
https://babylonbee.com/news/senators-pause-rfk-hearing-to-announce-this-next-round-of-questions-is-brought-to-you-by-pfizer
https://babylonbee.com/news/elizabeth-warren-asks-rfk-jr-how-he-will-address-outbreak-of-smallpox-from-white-mans-blankets
Hilarious! I'm not sure how I'd have made it through the Biden years without the Bee.
I saw those. Yup - hilarious. Way to go Babylon Bee.
They report the news before it happens. LOL
I like Snowden's definition of patriotism -- doing what is good for the people. He is a hero, not a traitor.
Unfortunately, he has suffered the alternative definition of "turnkey" which is suffering by "an instrument with a hinged claw, used for extracting teeth with a twist."
Snowden is a hero. He sacrificed his freedom to help protect America from abuse.
SURVEILLANCE FLIP-FLOP COULD SINK TULSI GABBARD’S NOMINATION [Extract]
WHEN GABBARD REPRESENTED HAWAII IN THE HOUSE, SHE REPEATEDLY SPOKE OUT AGAINST SECTION 702. In May 2020, she voted against renewing the authority because the reauthorization bill did not have the alterations to the statute she was looking for. “None of the reforms protect the American people from illegal warrantless surveillance. None of the reforms prevent the secret FISA Court from abusing the constitutional rights of Americans. None of the reforms provide real protection against surveillance orders targeted at activities protected under the First Amendment,” she said at the time. Months later, she sponsored a bill to repeal the authority altogether that also would have forced the director of national intelligence and attorney general to destroy any data collected on an American under Section 702, so long as it is not related to an ongoing investigation.
BUT SHE CHANGED COURSE ON THE LAW AFTER TRUMP NAMED HER AS HIS PICK TO BE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE, telling Punchbowl News she will “uphold Americans’ Fourth Amendment rights while maintaining vital national security tools like Section 702.” In her flip, GABBARD CITED UNSPECIFIED RECENT REFORMS THAT CONGRESS had made to the surveillance authority. “My prior concerns about FISA were based on insufficient protections for civil liberties, particularly regarding the FBI’s misuse of warrantless search powers on American citizens. Significant FISA reforms have been enacted since my time in Congress to address these issues,” she told Punchbowl.
*** Note: Those “recent reforms” are still unspecified.
Full article at https://thedispatch.com/article/tulsi-gabbard-intelligence-senate-confirmation-section-702/ ; EMPHASES added.:
Meanwhile, 67 people are dead, and all Trump can do is talk about is how great he was, is, and is gonna be.
So this is what he "was saved by God for," as he put it in his inaugural address: To be a complete and total flaming Asshole.
I ran a small poll, earlier this month. 96 of 98 people voted for Snowden being a patriot.
Along with this astute assessment I like to suggest reading Patrick Lawrence’s excellent article on Liberalism in the current CONSORTIUM NEWS edition. Readers on the so-called liberal political spectrum seem to overlook the fact that much of the surveillance problem was caused by the liberal establishment. I get the impression that the “old liberal” values have died.
Karl: Can You be more specific as to exactly how “much of the surveillance problem was caused by the liberal establishment”?
Was any of it caused by the conservative establishment? And how about the NEOliberal and NEOconservative establishments? Think those folks had anything to do with it; especially since 9/11?
Also, when You speak of “old liberal values” that have died, When did they die, Who and/or What killed them, and Who were the last champions of those old values?
And finally, where do the Classical ~ as opposed to Economic or Social ~ Liberal Values of Locke, Smith, Paine, and some of America’s Founding Fathers fit in to all this?
JG, a number of questions that would demand quite a lot of time to answer in depth. From my perspective the problem began big time with the mostly advocated phony Russiagate story advanced by the democratic establishment in 2016/17 and onward. It is still pushed by certain elements.
The problem of the what I call death of “old style” liberalism began with the disastrous presidential candidacy of George McGovern in 1972. Someone could argue that is older than that. For me the watershed was the Clinton presidency. From then on it accelerated to where we are today. America’s descent was made worse with the success of the ideologies of neoconservatism and neoliberalism. It affected not only the USA but also the EU countries. Germany, England and France, to name the most prominent, have descended into a form liberal fascism; I am aware of this being an oxymoron. The lack of freedom that is currently experienced under supposedly “liberal” EU governments is scary. I just finished reading a memoir of a Chinese-German journalist who had worked all her adult life as a journalist for Deutsche Welle (DW). She titled her autobiography ONLY THE RIGHT OPINION IS FREE (NUR DIE RICHTIGE MEINUNG IST FREI, Danhong Zang). In the last few years it got so bad that she returned to China after thirty plus years of living in Germany.
Where do those old giants of liberalism like Locke, Paine, J.S. Mill … fit in all of this? They don’t. Their values evolved out of a society steeped in ecclesiastical superstition and political authoritarianism. I think they would reject what modern liberalism has become.
Thanks, Karl. That's something that someone would go back to China in search of more "freedom," eh?
And i think that Classical Liberals ~ Locke, Smith, Paine, Mill, et al ~ would not merely reject "modern liberalism," but would condemn it completely.
I listened to her giving interviews. She doesn’t paint a rosy picture of “Chinese” freedom, but she did say that she discovered that there is less interference than in Germany. I have heard similar remarks from other westerners who live in China. There are certain taboo subjects like the political role of the CCP.
What you say about the classical liberals, I agree with you completely.
Because RFK Jr. is so clearly a nutcase, I think his confirmation by full Senate may not happen. As for Gabbard, Dems hate her for jumping on Trump bandwagon, and many in GOP will continue to call her "a Russian asset." So Trump may not get his way in her case, either. Mr. Snowden vanished from MSM a long, long time ago. I hope he's living well in Mother Russia! My visit to Moscow coincided with time Snowden was holed up in limbo at the airport, but of course I had no opportunity to meet him and shake his hand, which I certainly would have sought to do.
Everything in D.C. seems to be classified secret. And then there is the Constitution, where the government is set forth as a product of We the People. A lot of those Senators need to go back to school.
I had a Top Secret clearance when I was in the Navy. The numbers of those with TS in the military and government were relatively small.
Now the numbers are in the millions in both government and private companies. It has created a system where over classification isn't a bug, it's a feature. The US has become a modern version of a Kafka novel where everything is hidden.
I guess it makes them feel special. People like to feel special.
We the people meant wealthy, white men only. Back then only wealthy, white, property owning men could vote. Women were property. POC were only considered 3/5 human. The "founders" we're genocidal British oligarchs.
Tulsi has neither integrity, nor a spine. Do not be fooled by her stunts. Yes, it's nothing more than a stunt to gain sympathy from public.
NO SNOWDEN ISN'T A TRAITOR PERIOD, THE USA GOVERNMENT IS
Snowden also revealed some of the illegal surveillance being carried out in my homeland, Britain, and that American intelligence agencies sought advice from their British equivalents. Snowden is both a patriot and a hero. He understands that patriotism doesn’t consist of waving a flag but of questioning your government and asserting the rights guaranteed to us by the constitution.