Given what we know of Biden and Trump, two men of vast limitations, doesn't RFK Jr. offer more hope of transformative change in favor of the middle and lower classes?
Cornel West is barely a candidate. Jill Stein can't catch fire. RFK Jr., despite his faults, offers better prospects for the future than Biden-Trump.
Again, I'm not definitely committed to RFK Jr. Nor am I loving all his positions. But I know who Biden and Trump are. So I'm willing to consider Kennedy. The man, with all his faults, seems more genuine to me than the Biden-Trump "choice" being rammed down our throats.
I suppose at the broadest view of it, the question of who becomes the next President is similar to who was the Roman emperor when the Visigoths sacked Rome in 410 (Honorius) - the empire is about done and no one is going to save it.
But specifically, I had my doubts about RFK given his stance on Israel - perhaps as Bill noted, maybe not as extreme as Biden and Trump. But the allegations of sexual abuse revealed something his sister Rory had said about him when she did a documentary on his Riverkeeper work: he lies a great deal -and much of what they recorded could not be used because of his lies. She said there is a lot more about him the family is keeping quiet, which could expose other myths about the family.
I don't know what to believe about what she said or if there's any truth to a lot more that could come out about him and the Kennedys, but if any of it even appears true - the MSM would start pulling that thread and not give up - as he's not the favored choice of the elites. We'd then have three freaks vying for the Honorious title. But then maybe everyone would realize no one is coming to save us - and we need to start working locally to do that.
I never comment here, or anywhere for that matter. RFK Jr. is yet another elitist, bank rolled by the wealthy, yet again. He offers nothing in relation to the genocide our country is currently committing. . . No change from the capitalist system, and its derivatives (war, fascism, widespread poverty, etc.) or any way out of our country’s homegrown, deeply imbedded Nazism. . .Another elitist, false populist, like RFK Jr., Theodore Roosevelt was a role model for Hitler.
It’s sad that we have so little choice. I am likely not voting for moral reasons. . . But also because electoral politics is just such an out right fraud for the people of America. But I do respect your choice here Bill, and anyone else’s well reasoned opinion.
It’s a no-brainer. Kennedy has wormed his way into my head. ‘Just a pity I can’t vote for him in the US election. Biden was quick enough to co-opt Sir Keir Starmer, saying in his first phone call how glad he was that Starmer was with him on a bunch of policies including Ukraine which he then began to list. That’s that then. Here’s the deal as Biden is wont to say. It’ll be the only one available.
Thanks Bill, you've helped me make up my mind between Jill and Bobby. Bobby has an email out saying he'll bring our soldiers home and end our forever wars and do his damndest to settle the Ukranian war t o stop the killing of Ukranians. I've noted all along that he doesn't say anything about Gaza or Israel which is worrying, but the fact that he actually started talking about Ukraine and forever wars and possibly bringing our boys (and girls) home from bases all over the planet was a plus. I like Jill and I really like her ideas, but she needs someone to take over her web site and her whole operation that reaches out to the public. Her words are great, her public outreach is awful and needs a professional; I wish she understood that.
I agree with you that Kennedy is better than Biden or Trump and I can only hope that if he won that he would do something about Gaza. His vocal problems really need work; it's very hard to understand what he says. When I read what he has said I like it, but he's really hard to listen to, which is a major problem when campaigning. It's hard to sort out truth about him, there are so many lies especially about his views on vaccines. One of your commenters said that his family says Bobby lies alot. I haven't heard that though I know some members don't agree with him, but I think if someone is going to say that they need to provide some sort of poof or context for such a strong and broad comment.
Now I'm wondering who you would vote for if the oligarchs get their way, and get Biden to bow out and they put Kamala in to run? Would you vote for her? I'm sort of thinking I might, because I don't want Trump OR Biden ( they are equally bad) but I think Kamala might be actually better than Trump and that way I could vote for her - even though I don't think much of her. We sure have been dumped head firstinto that famous Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times"!!
No, I wouldn't vote for Kamala. She's shown no independence from the DNC line. She a cipher for corporate interests.
I'd stick with RFK Jr., unless the Democrats actually nominated a person of strong character who was not captured by corporate interests. I think that's very unlikely.
I would like to make RFK Jr's blindness to Israeli genocide an automatic disqualifier, but alas, beggars can't be choosers. I love your point about the deflection Bobby would have brought to the debate stage. Team Biden and CNN wanted it so--they have it so.
No one can do a better job than Biden and Trump for exposing to the world how pathetic US leadership has become.
In the first, we are on the Titanic. It has already hit the iceberg and is starting to go down. There is nothing to be done about it because of the watertight compartments, such as the separation of powers, one man one vote, Congress being the only body able to declare war, freedom of speech, etc., too many have been breached and flooded. But there are two things that make this imaginary sinking different from the one that happened. First of all there are people running through the ship eagerly opening bulkhead doors to flood even more watertight compartments and secondly the people on the ship are being told by the crew that the ship will not sink if only they will vote for the right captain.
In the second concept I recall the words attributed to Gandhi, "be the change you wish to see in the world". He did not say doing so would change the world, only that each of us has the ability to not impede change.
I believe that the American support of ethnic cleansing Israel, the beloved project of big money in the US is representative of our corruption. This support has nothing to do with liberty and justice for all and that is the fundamental goal for which the United States was formed. To support Israel is to betray the American experiment. Biden's betrayal has gone to the point of becoming a war criminal for Israel. Trump's betrayal was evident in selling the US embassy move to Jerusalem to his biggest donor, Sheldon Adelson. Adelson's, widow, Miriam, an Israeli, is first in line with her $100 million gift with another ask. RFKJ is all in for Israel.
I try to follow Gandhi's call and I vote accordingly. The three contenders everyone mentions offer no change. I will vote for Stein because she openly avows change, saying that she would stop weapons shipments to Israel as her first act as President. I don't claim she will win, but she does represent me as do none of the others. Even if I am the only one to vote for her, I will, and in doing so will show that someone finds her view fully American and supportive of the foundation of America mentioned above. I vote for her views, not the quality of her campaign or her level of support.
Stein has a lot of good ideas, but her campaign has gained no traction.
I want to break the corrupt duopoly, and RFK Jr. has a chance of doing that, especially as Biden implodes and Trump explodes.
Chances are, however, that the duopoly will use every trick, legal and illegal, to attack and weaken RFK Jr., including blocking him from ballots. All the more reason to vote for him, I think.
I'm under no illusion he's perfect, but please keep me from a world where I have to put up with Biden or Trump for another four years.
Dennis, a hallmark of a proper democracy is respect for the ability of everyone to vote for whom they please. Instead, without a single word from you on my explanation of why I will be voting for Stein, you dismiss me as a fool. I would never vote for your choice, Trump, but that is your choice and I'm not going to call you a fool for voting as you wish.
I think I mentioned here that two years ago on a trip I noticed a house covered with political signs. The biggest one in letters 4 feet high said "FUCK BIDEN, AND FUCK ALL THOSE WHO VOTED FOR HIM" If that is way Americans are trending, we are sunk.
Saying that someone can't win is for me no reason not to vote for the person. Recalling the Gandhi quote, just as it doesn't say that a person being the change means that change will happen, it is also implying that without the individual changing, the current situation is cemented. So also with voting. My vote is no guarantee that Stein will win, but my not voting for her will help make her bid unsuccessful and I won't allow that.
I think presidential politics in the US has turned into a carnival freak show, a grotesque spectacle that is devoid of anything or anyone with any value. The only thing that is certain is that, after the vote in November, plutocratic and neocon rule will still be in tact.
That is true, for what it's worth. Trump is Project 2025, a recipe for permanent plutocracy and obscene wealth inequality. If you vote for Trump, you are voting for the zealotry of the Heritage Foundation. If you vote for Biden (or Harris), you are voting for a cabal of hard core Brzezinski fanatics who are willing to play nuclear chicken in order to stave off the loss of US global hegemony. RFK, Jr. looks good compared to these two freaks. Could the bar be set any lower?
Interesting what did Heritage do for Trump in 2020? They were closer to Lincoln project.
Beside wrt the federal reserve; its huge balance sheet ($7.1 trillion about $2.4 trillion still mortgage based tranches) and paying interest on excess bank reserves ($3.3 trillion last week, stimulus money, money supply exploded in 2020 and 2021, left over that would cause a lot more inflation!) project 2025 should be heard. This frightens the modern monetarist theorists (who burned all the traditional money and banking text books)!
Well said, Charlie. But i'm curious: Do You think Trump is lying? ...:
TRUMP SEEKS TO DISAVOW 'PROJECT 2025' DESPITE TIES TO CONSERVATIVE GROUP by Nathan Layne / Reuters 5 Jul 24
July 5 (Reuters) - Former President Donald Trump tried to distance himself on Friday from a conservative group's sweeping plans for the next Republican presidency, days after its leader claimed a second American Revolution was underway that would "remain bloodless if the left allows it to be."
The Republican presidential candidate renounced any connection with Project 2025, a plan Democrats have been attacking to highlight what they say is Trump's extreme policy agenda for a second term should he beat President Joe Biden in the Nov. 5 election.
Many people involved in the project lead by the Heritage Foundation, America's top conservative think tank, worked in the Trump White House and would likely help fill out his administration if he wins in November.
But Trump said on his Truth Social platform he had nothing to do with the plan.
"I know nothing about Project 2025. I have no idea who is behind it," he wrote.
"I disagree with some of the things they're saying," he continued, adding some of their assertions were "absolutely ridiculous and abysmal."
Trump's post came three days after Heritage Foundation president Kevin Roberts' comments on Steve Bannon's "War Room" podcast about a second American Revolution. Democrats and others criticized what they viewed as a veiled threat of violence.
In a statement provided by a Project 2025 spokesperson on Friday, Roberts repeated his claim that Americans were carrying out a revolution "to take power back from the elites and despotic bureaucrats" and said it was the political left that had a history of political violence.
The spokesperson said that while Project 2025 provided recommendations for the next Republican president, it would be up to Trump, should he win, to decide whether to implement them. [Note: If instructed to do so, he will.]
Trump's move to create distance with Project 2025 could in part reflect an effort to moderate his message in the final months of the race, especially with Biden's campaign faltering after the Democratic candidate's June 27 debate, said James Wallner, a political science professor at Clemson University.
"Trump is basically now seeking to appeal to a broader audience," Wallner said.
The Biden campaign has stepped up its efforts to tie Trump's campaign to Project 2025.
“Project 2025 is the extreme policy and personnel playbook for Trump’s second term that should scare the hell out of the American people," campaign spokesperson Ammar Moussa said in a statement.
The 900-page blueprint calls for drastic reform of the federal government, including a gutting of some federal agencies and a vast expansion of presidential power. Trump's statements and policy positions suggest he is aligned with some but not all of the project's agenda.
The plans have been drawn up by the Heritage Foundation in coordination with a collection of other like-minded groups.
A number of people who worked on Project 2025 have close ties to the former president. Russ Vought, who was Trump's director of the Office of Management and Budget and is heading up a key committee at the Republican National Convention, authored one of the project's chapters.
Stephen Miller, a former senior adviser to Trump who is widely expected to be tapped for a top job in a second Trump administration, heads up a legal group on Project 2025's advisory board.
Sorry if my reply was a bit strong. But Trump is nothing more than an egoistic, opportunistic huckster who has no scruples or principles other than his own self-aggrandizement. And of course, he has proven himself as a rabid Zionist, racist, sexist, and xenophobe. He is qualified to be a used car salesman, at best.
i’m going to vote for A Real Choice, Bill: An Alternative to, and Antidote for the “choices” America’s Ruling Political Class is giving American Voters in Election2024.
As it stands right now, in every federal election to be held in 2024, Americans will have five choices. They will be able to:
* Vote for the Democrat.
* Vote for the Republican.
* Vote Independent or Third [Fourth, Fifth, etc] Party.
* Write-In Somebody/Anybody.
* Not Vote.
What if there was a Sixth Choice?
What if there was a Sixth Choice that demanded additional choices be offered? And then Voters made that Choice by being able to vote for it?
What if on every ballot for every federal election there was also a designated spot for “None Of These Candidates”?
This presents the argument that “None Of These Candidates” should be on every ballot of every federal election, and proposes a nation-wide campaign to give the American Voters a real alternative to ~ and an actual antidote for ~ what America’s Ruling Political Class is and will be giving them for so-called, alleged “Choices” in 2024.
The best alternative to, antidote for, and action against the “Choices” that America’s RPC is offering Voters in 2024 is NONE OF THESE CANDIDATES [NOTC, aka #NOTC2024].
Casting one’s vote for any of the “independent,” 3rd, 4th, or 5th Party candidates will accomplish nothing except give the individual Voter the satisfaction of having voted in accordance with her or his conscience. It will have no impact whatsoever on whether Trump or Biden gets elected.
But if all those contemplating voting other than Republican or Democrat voted instead for NONE OF THESE CANDIDATES, it could have an impact. Certainly more than scattered votes for the different alternative candidates.
And if all those Voters ~ who have nobody to vote FOR in the election, and only Trump or Biden as who they are going to vote AGAINST being the next President by voting for the other guy, the so-called “lesser of two evils” ~ if all of those Voters voted NOTC, it could have an impact, as well.
And finally, if all those Voters ~ who are fed up enough with American politics to not vote for or against anybody, and not vote at all ~ if all those Voters had the opportunity to vote for NONE OF THESE CANDIDATES as an alternative to Not Voting, it could also have an impact. [Note: In 2016, 38.6% of all Registered Voters did not vote for anybody to be the next President; in 2020, 33.3% did not vote for anybody for POTUS.]
Done in sufficient numbers all across the nation, a strong showing by NOTC would send a very loud and clear message ~ a shot across the bow, as it were ~ to that Ruling Political Class that its time of unbridled, unchallenged, and unchallengeable political power is over.
And that having to choose between “the lesser of two evils” is really nothing but a thinly disguised version of “the evil of two lessers.” And is no longer an acceptable option.
So the Question becomes: How would one vote for NONE OF THESE CANDIDATES and actually make a difference?
One very obvious option would be to organize and launch a national, 50-State wide campaign to get Voters to write-in “None Of These Candidates.”
An alternative to writing-in NOTC would be mandating by State-established process and procedure [legislative action, voter referendum, etc] that NOTC be available as a choice on all ballots for all federal elections held in that State. Voters in Nevada have had that option for all federal, state, and local elections since 1975.
Either and/or both of these things could happen very easily if a critical mass of conscientious, concerned, and committed Citizens determined to make exactly that happen in their State in plenty of time for Election2024; particularly in those states with US Senate elections.
For more information and specific details on how and why #NOTC2024 is the ONLY viable option and choice that has the potential of bringing meaningful, effective Change to American politics and its system of government and governance, contact me, Jeff Moebus, by email at notc.alaska@gmail.com .
Clif: According to the Wiki article [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Write-in_candidate ], people seeking to be a Write-In candidate in Illinois need to register with the Illinois State Board of Elections by September 15.
The real question is: Would the Board accept “None Of These Candidates” as an acceptable Write-In “candidate”? Or does it have to be an actual person?
Interesting. I wonder how the state would deal with that, perhaps saying that "none" is not a person so application denied. But then the Supreme Court has ruled that corporations are persons, so why not "none"?
Jeff, excellent points. As far as I can remember none of the presidents of the last fifty plus years has actually garnered an actual majority vote of eligible voters. The electoral system needs a revolutionary change. Your proposal is a step in the right direction.
The purpose of NOTC is Not to change or "reform" America's system of electing public officials , be it FPP, the Electoral College, or anything else.
The purpose of NOTC is to give Voters a real alternative to and antidote for what America's Ruling Political Class deigns to give those Voters as "Choices."
It is to give those Voters ~ who are tired of having to always vote for merely "the lesser of two evils" ~ someone to actually vote FOR instead of merely AGAINST, and an actual, real vote that will count.
It is to give those Voters ~ who are so fed up with America's election system and the people it puts in office that they don't vote at all~ an actual, real reason to vote and actually vote. And have their vote counted.
It is to give those Voters ~ who are contemplating voting Independent, or 3rd, 4th, or 5th Party ~ an actual, real vote that, combined with the other two sets of folks, COULD make a very significant impact on the outcome of the election in question.
Dennis: The purpose of NOTC is Not to change or "reform" America's system of electing public officials , be it FPP, the Electoral College, or anything else.
The purpose of NOTC is to give Voters a real alternative to and antidote for what America's Ruling Political Class deigns to give those Voters as "Choices."
It is to give those Voters ~ who are tired of having to always vote for merely "the lesser of two evils" ~ someone to actually vote FOR instead of merely AGAINST, and an actual, real vote that will count.
It is to give those Voters ~ who are so fed up with America's election system and the people it puts in office that they don't vote at all~ an actual, real reason to vote and actually vote. And have their vote counted.
It is to give those Voters ~ who are contemplating voting Independent, or 3rd, 4th, or 5th Party ~ an actual, real vote that, combined with the other two sets of folks, COULD make a very significant impact on the outcome of the election in question.
Maybe “fiddling around the edges” as you call it is a step in the right direction. Reform minded people need to learn to dialogue instead of reprimanding. The problem of the progressive movement has been and is too much quarreling instead of a united approach while tolerating differences.
"The Falcon & the Snowman" No doubt he's seen it. Great 80's. movie & David Bowie Songscore. Unfortunately I can't share your same enthusiasm for RFK Jr. "You see I have this little worm... " lol Tisha Sterling as Linny Raven, "Coogans Bluff" oh never mind! His whole Famdamily is against him gotta tell you sumthin as well. Personally, I think he's a little daffy, embarassing and a Lightweight as RFK's. Son from Camelot and the Kennedy Compound in Hyannisport w/o the vision his dad had. Still undecided here. Too much too soon..!
RFK Jr. is also very much a corporatist, if you follow the money. He talks against big corporations, but he doesn't scruple to take their contributions. And he's staunchly pro-Israel, no question about it. Then there's the anti-vaxx component.
I'd really love to be comfortable supporting him, because he did do good environmental work at one time, but even there, a number of the biggest green organizations have recently denounced him because of questionable policies. In short, there are too many negatives for me.
As I understand it, RFK Jr. will be on many more ballots after August.
Both parties are hard at work blocking him. In short, both parties are anti-democratic. They're corporate monopolies. Are you sure you want to vote for that?
Dennis, what part of "She can't win" don't you understand?
The unavoidable reality is a Democrat or a Republican will win in November, more than likely Trump. The system works...for the corporate elite, the corporate press, and the MIC, and it won't be changed in even our grandchildren's lifetime. As long as likely voters keep "going along with the program," acquiescing to corporatocracy electoral dictates and propaganda, there will never be a third party or independent challenger that will break through. Dozens of Dem and Republican strategists, however, are already gaming out which War Party candidate will be more negatively effected by RFK Jr, Stein, or even West, particularly in battleground states. It will continue to be a conundrum for them.
The so-called Nader Effect is alive and well, more so now than in my lifetime. US voters literally have have a choice between two shit sandwiches, three if you count Kennedy. A vote for anyone other than the warmongering status quo is not a "wasted vote", as the narrative managers would have you believe. We're on the verge of starting a nuclear war - yes, "we" - and any candidate with a peace agenda on her or his platform will get my vote. The time to send our cowardly, immoral, un-bloodied pols a clear message is long overdue.
His stance on Palestine is a nonstarter for me, and I contributed a small amount early to his campaign before the invasion of Gaza. Any politician who justifies such slaughter in any way loses my vote. I will either vote for Jill Stein or stay home, since the Libertarians seem to have taken themselves out of the running this year.
No. But it could be added as a Write-In option in up to 40 States. Here's how Wiki explains it [with an accompanying by-State chart of requirements to be met].. :
"As of 2024, 40 states and the District of Columbia allow write-in votes on their ballots, including for president; Alaska, New Mexico and South Carolina allow write-in candidates for some offices but not for president; Mississippi allows write-in votes only to substitute a candidate listed on the ballot who was removed, withdrew or died; Arkansas, Hawaii, Louisiana, Nevada, Oklahoma and South Dakota do not allow any write-in votes.
"Most of the jurisdictions allowing write-in votes require that the write-in candidates register by a certain date for their votes to be counted. Typically this registration consists only of a declaration of candidacy, but some states also require signatures of a certain number of voters, additional paperwork or fees. The deadline to register as a write-in candidate is usually later than to petition to be listed on the ballot."
Assuming Your State allows Write-In voting and all requirements to be allowed are met [as indicated in the Wiki article chart], Bill, that’s what You would do.
And whether or not NOTC can gain traction will depend completely on how it is marketed and sold. It may very well be too late to have a Significant ~ or even any ~ impact on Election2024, but attempting to market and sell it now will set the stage for it to be fully available for Election2026, and from that, for Election2028.
[Note: All this assumes, of course, that there will be a national election 2 and 4 years from now. Which further assumes that there will be an election this year, 121 days from today.]
Bill, you are presenting a very sensible argument. I am afraid that the core issue of a dysfunctional and corrupt electoral system prevents any meaningful outcome this November. This wonderful country/nation suffers from a calcified electoral process that induces a large segment of the electorate to participate in the most important aspect of the nation’s life. Unfortunately, we lack a forum to advance ideas or provide a venue for vigorous discussion across the country. BTW, the US is not alone. Most of the “western” democracies suffer from the same problem.
You say that Jill Stein and Cornell West are fringe left. By today's standards, FDR would be fringe left, and I liked FDR. So maybe I'll take a look at Jill and Cornell.
A simple way of looking at this.
1. Who wants four more years of Biden?
2. Who wants four more years of Trump?
Given what we know of Biden and Trump, two men of vast limitations, doesn't RFK Jr. offer more hope of transformative change in favor of the middle and lower classes?
Cornel West is barely a candidate. Jill Stein can't catch fire. RFK Jr., despite his faults, offers better prospects for the future than Biden-Trump.
Again, I'm not definitely committed to RFK Jr. Nor am I loving all his positions. But I know who Biden and Trump are. So I'm willing to consider Kennedy. The man, with all his faults, seems more genuine to me than the Biden-Trump "choice" being rammed down our throats.
I suppose at the broadest view of it, the question of who becomes the next President is similar to who was the Roman emperor when the Visigoths sacked Rome in 410 (Honorius) - the empire is about done and no one is going to save it.
But specifically, I had my doubts about RFK given his stance on Israel - perhaps as Bill noted, maybe not as extreme as Biden and Trump. But the allegations of sexual abuse revealed something his sister Rory had said about him when she did a documentary on his Riverkeeper work: he lies a great deal -and much of what they recorded could not be used because of his lies. She said there is a lot more about him the family is keeping quiet, which could expose other myths about the family.
I don't know what to believe about what she said or if there's any truth to a lot more that could come out about him and the Kennedys, but if any of it even appears true - the MSM would start pulling that thread and not give up - as he's not the favored choice of the elites. We'd then have three freaks vying for the Honorious title. But then maybe everyone would realize no one is coming to save us - and we need to start working locally to do that.
I really like your thinking in the last sentences here, Tom.
Someone streaming the other night paid Biden the immense, undeserved compliment of comparing him to Marcus Aurelius!!
The correlation was neither can find someone decent to replace him!
The difference is Biden despite the shrill diatribes is not "emperor for life".
I can't wait for Biden's Meditations!
The first line:
"Here's the deal....."
Would be as famous as Dickens' first line in "Tale of Two Cities..."
I never comment here, or anywhere for that matter. RFK Jr. is yet another elitist, bank rolled by the wealthy, yet again. He offers nothing in relation to the genocide our country is currently committing. . . No change from the capitalist system, and its derivatives (war, fascism, widespread poverty, etc.) or any way out of our country’s homegrown, deeply imbedded Nazism. . .Another elitist, false populist, like RFK Jr., Theodore Roosevelt was a role model for Hitler.
It’s sad that we have so little choice. I am likely not voting for moral reasons. . . But also because electoral politics is just such an out right fraud for the people of America. But I do respect your choice here Bill, and anyone else’s well reasoned opinion.
Adrian: Have You considered voting for "None Of These Candidates," described in an earlier comment?
It’s a no-brainer. Kennedy has wormed his way into my head. ‘Just a pity I can’t vote for him in the US election. Biden was quick enough to co-opt Sir Keir Starmer, saying in his first phone call how glad he was that Starmer was with him on a bunch of policies including Ukraine which he then began to list. That’s that then. Here’s the deal as Biden is wont to say. It’ll be the only one available.
"wormed his way" -- Well played, sir.
Thanks Bill, you've helped me make up my mind between Jill and Bobby. Bobby has an email out saying he'll bring our soldiers home and end our forever wars and do his damndest to settle the Ukranian war t o stop the killing of Ukranians. I've noted all along that he doesn't say anything about Gaza or Israel which is worrying, but the fact that he actually started talking about Ukraine and forever wars and possibly bringing our boys (and girls) home from bases all over the planet was a plus. I like Jill and I really like her ideas, but she needs someone to take over her web site and her whole operation that reaches out to the public. Her words are great, her public outreach is awful and needs a professional; I wish she understood that.
I agree with you that Kennedy is better than Biden or Trump and I can only hope that if he won that he would do something about Gaza. His vocal problems really need work; it's very hard to understand what he says. When I read what he has said I like it, but he's really hard to listen to, which is a major problem when campaigning. It's hard to sort out truth about him, there are so many lies especially about his views on vaccines. One of your commenters said that his family says Bobby lies alot. I haven't heard that though I know some members don't agree with him, but I think if someone is going to say that they need to provide some sort of poof or context for such a strong and broad comment.
Now I'm wondering who you would vote for if the oligarchs get their way, and get Biden to bow out and they put Kamala in to run? Would you vote for her? I'm sort of thinking I might, because I don't want Trump OR Biden ( they are equally bad) but I think Kamala might be actually better than Trump and that way I could vote for her - even though I don't think much of her. We sure have been dumped head firstinto that famous Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times"!!
No, I wouldn't vote for Kamala. She's shown no independence from the DNC line. She a cipher for corporate interests.
I'd stick with RFK Jr., unless the Democrats actually nominated a person of strong character who was not captured by corporate interests. I think that's very unlikely.
I would like to make RFK Jr's blindness to Israeli genocide an automatic disqualifier, but alas, beggars can't be choosers. I love your point about the deflection Bobby would have brought to the debate stage. Team Biden and CNN wanted it so--they have it so.
No one can do a better job than Biden and Trump for exposing to the world how pathetic US leadership has become.
Two thoughts are in my mind.
In the first, we are on the Titanic. It has already hit the iceberg and is starting to go down. There is nothing to be done about it because of the watertight compartments, such as the separation of powers, one man one vote, Congress being the only body able to declare war, freedom of speech, etc., too many have been breached and flooded. But there are two things that make this imaginary sinking different from the one that happened. First of all there are people running through the ship eagerly opening bulkhead doors to flood even more watertight compartments and secondly the people on the ship are being told by the crew that the ship will not sink if only they will vote for the right captain.
In the second concept I recall the words attributed to Gandhi, "be the change you wish to see in the world". He did not say doing so would change the world, only that each of us has the ability to not impede change.
I believe that the American support of ethnic cleansing Israel, the beloved project of big money in the US is representative of our corruption. This support has nothing to do with liberty and justice for all and that is the fundamental goal for which the United States was formed. To support Israel is to betray the American experiment. Biden's betrayal has gone to the point of becoming a war criminal for Israel. Trump's betrayal was evident in selling the US embassy move to Jerusalem to his biggest donor, Sheldon Adelson. Adelson's, widow, Miriam, an Israeli, is first in line with her $100 million gift with another ask. RFKJ is all in for Israel.
I try to follow Gandhi's call and I vote accordingly. The three contenders everyone mentions offer no change. I will vote for Stein because she openly avows change, saying that she would stop weapons shipments to Israel as her first act as President. I don't claim she will win, but she does represent me as do none of the others. Even if I am the only one to vote for her, I will, and in doing so will show that someone finds her view fully American and supportive of the foundation of America mentioned above. I vote for her views, not the quality of her campaign or her level of support.
Stein has a lot of good ideas, but her campaign has gained no traction.
I want to break the corrupt duopoly, and RFK Jr. has a chance of doing that, especially as Biden implodes and Trump explodes.
Chances are, however, that the duopoly will use every trick, legal and illegal, to attack and weaken RFK Jr., including blocking him from ballots. All the more reason to vote for him, I think.
I'm under no illusion he's perfect, but please keep me from a world where I have to put up with Biden or Trump for another four years.
Dennis, a hallmark of a proper democracy is respect for the ability of everyone to vote for whom they please. Instead, without a single word from you on my explanation of why I will be voting for Stein, you dismiss me as a fool. I would never vote for your choice, Trump, but that is your choice and I'm not going to call you a fool for voting as you wish.
I think I mentioned here that two years ago on a trip I noticed a house covered with political signs. The biggest one in letters 4 feet high said "FUCK BIDEN, AND FUCK ALL THOSE WHO VOTED FOR HIM" If that is way Americans are trending, we are sunk.
Thanks for your follow up, Dennis.
Saying that someone can't win is for me no reason not to vote for the person. Recalling the Gandhi quote, just as it doesn't say that a person being the change means that change will happen, it is also implying that without the individual changing, the current situation is cemented. So also with voting. My vote is no guarantee that Stein will win, but my not voting for her will help make her bid unsuccessful and I won't allow that.
I think presidential politics in the US has turned into a carnival freak show, a grotesque spectacle that is devoid of anything or anyone with any value. The only thing that is certain is that, after the vote in November, plutocratic and neocon rule will still be in tact.
Likely so. RFK Jr. is a long shot for sure, but he's a better choice than Trump-Biden.
That is true, for what it's worth. Trump is Project 2025, a recipe for permanent plutocracy and obscene wealth inequality. If you vote for Trump, you are voting for the zealotry of the Heritage Foundation. If you vote for Biden (or Harris), you are voting for a cabal of hard core Brzezinski fanatics who are willing to play nuclear chicken in order to stave off the loss of US global hegemony. RFK, Jr. looks good compared to these two freaks. Could the bar be set any lower?
Interesting what did Heritage do for Trump in 2020? They were closer to Lincoln project.
Beside wrt the federal reserve; its huge balance sheet ($7.1 trillion about $2.4 trillion still mortgage based tranches) and paying interest on excess bank reserves ($3.3 trillion last week, stimulus money, money supply exploded in 2020 and 2021, left over that would cause a lot more inflation!) project 2025 should be heard. This frightens the modern monetarist theorists (who burned all the traditional money and banking text books)!
Political economics has very political!
Well said, Charlie. But i'm curious: Do You think Trump is lying? ...:
TRUMP SEEKS TO DISAVOW 'PROJECT 2025' DESPITE TIES TO CONSERVATIVE GROUP by Nathan Layne / Reuters 5 Jul 24
July 5 (Reuters) - Former President Donald Trump tried to distance himself on Friday from a conservative group's sweeping plans for the next Republican presidency, days after its leader claimed a second American Revolution was underway that would "remain bloodless if the left allows it to be."
The Republican presidential candidate renounced any connection with Project 2025, a plan Democrats have been attacking to highlight what they say is Trump's extreme policy agenda for a second term should he beat President Joe Biden in the Nov. 5 election.
Many people involved in the project lead by the Heritage Foundation, America's top conservative think tank, worked in the Trump White House and would likely help fill out his administration if he wins in November.
But Trump said on his Truth Social platform he had nothing to do with the plan.
"I know nothing about Project 2025. I have no idea who is behind it," he wrote.
"I disagree with some of the things they're saying," he continued, adding some of their assertions were "absolutely ridiculous and abysmal."
Trump's post came three days after Heritage Foundation president Kevin Roberts' comments on Steve Bannon's "War Room" podcast about a second American Revolution. Democrats and others criticized what they viewed as a veiled threat of violence.
In a statement provided by a Project 2025 spokesperson on Friday, Roberts repeated his claim that Americans were carrying out a revolution "to take power back from the elites and despotic bureaucrats" and said it was the political left that had a history of political violence.
The spokesperson said that while Project 2025 provided recommendations for the next Republican president, it would be up to Trump, should he win, to decide whether to implement them. [Note: If instructed to do so, he will.]
Trump's move to create distance with Project 2025 could in part reflect an effort to moderate his message in the final months of the race, especially with Biden's campaign faltering after the Democratic candidate's June 27 debate, said James Wallner, a political science professor at Clemson University.
"Trump is basically now seeking to appeal to a broader audience," Wallner said.
The Biden campaign has stepped up its efforts to tie Trump's campaign to Project 2025.
“Project 2025 is the extreme policy and personnel playbook for Trump’s second term that should scare the hell out of the American people," campaign spokesperson Ammar Moussa said in a statement.
The 900-page blueprint calls for drastic reform of the federal government, including a gutting of some federal agencies and a vast expansion of presidential power. Trump's statements and policy positions suggest he is aligned with some but not all of the project's agenda.
The plans have been drawn up by the Heritage Foundation in coordination with a collection of other like-minded groups.
A number of people who worked on Project 2025 have close ties to the former president. Russ Vought, who was Trump's director of the Office of Management and Budget and is heading up a key committee at the Republican National Convention, authored one of the project's chapters.
Stephen Miller, a former senior adviser to Trump who is widely expected to be tapped for a top job in a second Trump administration, heads up a legal group on Project 2025's advisory board.
Source: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-seeks-disavow-project-2025-despite-ties-conservative-group-2024-07-05/
Trump is a pathological liar of the first order. Anyone who believes anything that comes out of his mouth is brain dead, in my opinion.
If you believe anything that comes out of Trump's mouth, you are brain dead, in my opinion.
The DNC is making project 2025 Trump's w/o any idea where Heritage stand on Trump nor where Trump stands on Heritage.
Some of it is Gold Bugery bait....
Which scares the owners of current economic situation with the huge unaddressed growth in money supply since the virus!
If DNC thinks Biden's psychological status is under fire, then the DNC might as well run a diversion over a Heritage paper!
Sorry if my reply was a bit strong. But Trump is nothing more than an egoistic, opportunistic huckster who has no scruples or principles other than his own self-aggrandizement. And of course, he has proven himself as a rabid Zionist, racist, sexist, and xenophobe. He is qualified to be a used car salesman, at best.
That's sort of like saying being shot is a better choice than being hanged.
i’m going to vote for A Real Choice, Bill: An Alternative to, and Antidote for the “choices” America’s Ruling Political Class is giving American Voters in Election2024.
As it stands right now, in every federal election to be held in 2024, Americans will have five choices. They will be able to:
* Vote for the Democrat.
* Vote for the Republican.
* Vote Independent or Third [Fourth, Fifth, etc] Party.
* Write-In Somebody/Anybody.
* Not Vote.
What if there was a Sixth Choice?
What if there was a Sixth Choice that demanded additional choices be offered? And then Voters made that Choice by being able to vote for it?
What if on every ballot for every federal election there was also a designated spot for “None Of These Candidates”?
This presents the argument that “None Of These Candidates” should be on every ballot of every federal election, and proposes a nation-wide campaign to give the American Voters a real alternative to ~ and an actual antidote for ~ what America’s Ruling Political Class is and will be giving them for so-called, alleged “Choices” in 2024.
The best alternative to, antidote for, and action against the “Choices” that America’s RPC is offering Voters in 2024 is NONE OF THESE CANDIDATES [NOTC, aka #NOTC2024].
Casting one’s vote for any of the “independent,” 3rd, 4th, or 5th Party candidates will accomplish nothing except give the individual Voter the satisfaction of having voted in accordance with her or his conscience. It will have no impact whatsoever on whether Trump or Biden gets elected.
But if all those contemplating voting other than Republican or Democrat voted instead for NONE OF THESE CANDIDATES, it could have an impact. Certainly more than scattered votes for the different alternative candidates.
And if all those Voters ~ who have nobody to vote FOR in the election, and only Trump or Biden as who they are going to vote AGAINST being the next President by voting for the other guy, the so-called “lesser of two evils” ~ if all of those Voters voted NOTC, it could have an impact, as well.
And finally, if all those Voters ~ who are fed up enough with American politics to not vote for or against anybody, and not vote at all ~ if all those Voters had the opportunity to vote for NONE OF THESE CANDIDATES as an alternative to Not Voting, it could also have an impact. [Note: In 2016, 38.6% of all Registered Voters did not vote for anybody to be the next President; in 2020, 33.3% did not vote for anybody for POTUS.]
Done in sufficient numbers all across the nation, a strong showing by NOTC would send a very loud and clear message ~ a shot across the bow, as it were ~ to that Ruling Political Class that its time of unbridled, unchallenged, and unchallengeable political power is over.
And that having to choose between “the lesser of two evils” is really nothing but a thinly disguised version of “the evil of two lessers.” And is no longer an acceptable option.
So the Question becomes: How would one vote for NONE OF THESE CANDIDATES and actually make a difference?
One very obvious option would be to organize and launch a national, 50-State wide campaign to get Voters to write-in “None Of These Candidates.”
An alternative to writing-in NOTC would be mandating by State-established process and procedure [legislative action, voter referendum, etc] that NOTC be available as a choice on all ballots for all federal elections held in that State. Voters in Nevada have had that option for all federal, state, and local elections since 1975.
Either and/or both of these things could happen very easily if a critical mass of conscientious, concerned, and committed Citizens determined to make exactly that happen in their State in plenty of time for Election2024; particularly in those states with US Senate elections.
For more information and specific details on how and why #NOTC2024 is the ONLY viable option and choice that has the potential of bringing meaningful, effective Change to American politics and its system of government and governance, contact me, Jeff Moebus, by email at notc.alaska@gmail.com .
What if the moon was made of green cheese?
Moonlight would be Green, and not White like it is now.
Illinois throws out any ballot with anything written in on it. They cover all the bases.
Clif: According to the Wiki article [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Write-in_candidate ], people seeking to be a Write-In candidate in Illinois need to register with the Illinois State Board of Elections by September 15.
The real question is: Would the Board accept “None Of These Candidates” as an acceptable Write-In “candidate”? Or does it have to be an actual person?
Interesting. I wonder how the state would deal with that, perhaps saying that "none" is not a person so application denied. But then the Supreme Court has ruled that corporations are persons, so why not "none"?
Heh. Damn Good point.
It would definitely be worth a try, eh?
Jeff, excellent points. As far as I can remember none of the presidents of the last fifty plus years has actually garnered an actual majority vote of eligible voters. The electoral system needs a revolutionary change. Your proposal is a step in the right direction.
Like i told Dennis, Karl:
The purpose of NOTC is Not to change or "reform" America's system of electing public officials , be it FPP, the Electoral College, or anything else.
The purpose of NOTC is to give Voters a real alternative to and antidote for what America's Ruling Political Class deigns to give those Voters as "Choices."
It is to give those Voters ~ who are tired of having to always vote for merely "the lesser of two evils" ~ someone to actually vote FOR instead of merely AGAINST, and an actual, real vote that will count.
It is to give those Voters ~ who are so fed up with America's election system and the people it puts in office that they don't vote at all~ an actual, real reason to vote and actually vote. And have their vote counted.
It is to give those Voters ~ who are contemplating voting Independent, or 3rd, 4th, or 5th Party ~ an actual, real vote that, combined with the other two sets of folks, COULD make a very significant impact on the outcome of the election in question.
Dennis: The purpose of NOTC is Not to change or "reform" America's system of electing public officials , be it FPP, the Electoral College, or anything else.
The purpose of NOTC is to give Voters a real alternative to and antidote for what America's Ruling Political Class deigns to give those Voters as "Choices."
It is to give those Voters ~ who are tired of having to always vote for merely "the lesser of two evils" ~ someone to actually vote FOR instead of merely AGAINST, and an actual, real vote that will count.
It is to give those Voters ~ who are so fed up with America's election system and the people it puts in office that they don't vote at all~ an actual, real reason to vote and actually vote. And have their vote counted.
It is to give those Voters ~ who are contemplating voting Independent, or 3rd, 4th, or 5th Party ~ an actual, real vote that, combined with the other two sets of folks, COULD make a very significant impact on the outcome of the election in question.
So exactly how is all that "fiddling"?
Maybe “fiddling around the edges” as you call it is a step in the right direction. Reform minded people need to learn to dialogue instead of reprimanding. The problem of the progressive movement has been and is too much quarreling instead of a united approach while tolerating differences.
Burp. Fart.
"The Falcon & the Snowman" No doubt he's seen it. Great 80's. movie & David Bowie Songscore. Unfortunately I can't share your same enthusiasm for RFK Jr. "You see I have this little worm... " lol Tisha Sterling as Linny Raven, "Coogans Bluff" oh never mind! His whole Famdamily is against him gotta tell you sumthin as well. Personally, I think he's a little daffy, embarassing and a Lightweight as RFK's. Son from Camelot and the Kennedy Compound in Hyannisport w/o the vision his dad had. Still undecided here. Too much too soon..!
RFK Jr. is also very much a corporatist, if you follow the money. He talks against big corporations, but he doesn't scruple to take their contributions. And he's staunchly pro-Israel, no question about it. Then there's the anti-vaxx component.
I'd really love to be comfortable supporting him, because he did do good environmental work at one time, but even there, a number of the biggest green organizations have recently denounced him because of questionable policies. In short, there are too many negatives for me.
Do you live in one of the 6 States where RFK Jr. is on the ballot? Talk about unelectable !
As I understand it, RFK Jr. will be on many more ballots after August.
Both parties are hard at work blocking him. In short, both parties are anti-democratic. They're corporate monopolies. Are you sure you want to vote for that?
Dennis, what part of "She can't win" don't you understand?
The unavoidable reality is a Democrat or a Republican will win in November, more than likely Trump. The system works...for the corporate elite, the corporate press, and the MIC, and it won't be changed in even our grandchildren's lifetime. As long as likely voters keep "going along with the program," acquiescing to corporatocracy electoral dictates and propaganda, there will never be a third party or independent challenger that will break through. Dozens of Dem and Republican strategists, however, are already gaming out which War Party candidate will be more negatively effected by RFK Jr, Stein, or even West, particularly in battleground states. It will continue to be a conundrum for them.
The so-called Nader Effect is alive and well, more so now than in my lifetime. US voters literally have have a choice between two shit sandwiches, three if you count Kennedy. A vote for anyone other than the warmongering status quo is not a "wasted vote", as the narrative managers would have you believe. We're on the verge of starting a nuclear war - yes, "we" - and any candidate with a peace agenda on her or his platform will get my vote. The time to send our cowardly, immoral, un-bloodied pols a clear message is long overdue.
His stance on Palestine is a nonstarter for me, and I contributed a small amount early to his campaign before the invasion of Gaza. Any politician who justifies such slaughter in any way loses my vote. I will either vote for Jill Stein or stay home, since the Libertarians seem to have taken themselves out of the running this year.
ikester8: Have You considered voting for "None Of These Candidates"?
I don't think NOTC can be added as a nation-wide option by November, Jeff. Do you?
No. But it could be added as a Write-In option in up to 40 States. Here's how Wiki explains it [with an accompanying by-State chart of requirements to be met].. :
"As of 2024, 40 states and the District of Columbia allow write-in votes on their ballots, including for president; Alaska, New Mexico and South Carolina allow write-in candidates for some offices but not for president; Mississippi allows write-in votes only to substitute a candidate listed on the ballot who was removed, withdrew or died; Arkansas, Hawaii, Louisiana, Nevada, Oklahoma and South Dakota do not allow any write-in votes.
"Most of the jurisdictions allowing write-in votes require that the write-in candidates register by a certain date for their votes to be counted. Typically this registration consists only of a declaration of candidacy, but some states also require signatures of a certain number of voters, additional paperwork or fees. The deadline to register as a write-in candidate is usually later than to petition to be listed on the ballot."
[Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Write-in_candidate ]
Heh. Like they say: "If it was easy, anybody could and would do it," eh?
So, I would write-in "NOTC"? I don't see how NOTC can gain traction that way.
NOTC might be viable in 2028, if it was a nationwide "choice," but it's too late for 2024.
Assuming Your State allows Write-In voting and all requirements to be allowed are met [as indicated in the Wiki article chart], Bill, that’s what You would do.
And whether or not NOTC can gain traction will depend completely on how it is marketed and sold. It may very well be too late to have a Significant ~ or even any ~ impact on Election2024, but attempting to market and sell it now will set the stage for it to be fully available for Election2026, and from that, for Election2028.
[Note: All this assumes, of course, that there will be a national election 2 and 4 years from now. Which further assumes that there will be an election this year, 121 days from today.]
I can write it in, sure.
Great. First, tho, You need to determine whether or not Your State allows Write-In voting, and any requirements that must be met for that to happen.
Refer to the chart in the Wiki article [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Write-in_candidate ] to see how things stand where You live. ~ jeff
I live in a state where one can write in candidates.
There You go.
Now maybe You can think about how to spread the idea of NOTC among Your family, loved ones, friends, neighbors, colleagues, cohorts, and compeers.
That's how stuff like this gets started, eh?
Bill, you are presenting a very sensible argument. I am afraid that the core issue of a dysfunctional and corrupt electoral system prevents any meaningful outcome this November. This wonderful country/nation suffers from a calcified electoral process that induces a large segment of the electorate to participate in the most important aspect of the nation’s life. Unfortunately, we lack a forum to advance ideas or provide a venue for vigorous discussion across the country. BTW, the US is not alone. Most of the “western” democracies suffer from the same problem.
You say that Jill Stein and Cornell West are fringe left. By today's standards, FDR would be fringe left, and I liked FDR. So maybe I'll take a look at Jill and Cornell.
Sure, check them out. Check out all the candidates. Every voter should do this.