Interestingly, even in the movie "Starship Troopers," which envisioned a neo-fascist society, high school students were taught a form of civics by military veterans but those students didn't wear military uniforms.
They had to wait to graduate before donning a uniform and joining the ranks.
Cub Scouts was enough for me. The uniforms, badges, ranks had no appeal. Thank goodness Mom was willing to do the projects and sew on the badges. I did like the field trips to the Mars candy company and the Pepperidge Farm bakery though. When it was time to be a Webelo (standing for We Belong I think) I knew I didn't.
This article shocked me; it reminded me of the Nazis in Germany before WWII training kids in school to spy on their parents and also to militarize them in various ways with racism and other forms of hate. We may not have gone that far yet, but it strikes me as only a matter of time the way fascism is now spreading in this country and in the world. I sent it to several friends who have connections to public schools so they would be aware. Thanks for writing this!
Get rid of high school JROTC. Also, all violent video games, movies, and music. Perverting kids with rainbow flag books and recruiting them in military, does surely have the inner motive to crucify all life. A rebellion against God, everything good and constructive. Misuse of all channels of activities that doesn't serve the constructive, harmonious, way of life. Excellent article.
Correct me if i am wrong, Bill, but as i understand it, Uvalde happened because the Police on the scene sat on their asses and did absolutely nothing while the whole event was unfolding; and did nothing until all the shooting was done.
When the metal detectors, locked doors, etc don't work, that's what Citizens are supposed to have Police for, isn't it?
Of course, in some parts of this country, it is becoming increasingly difficult to separate the Cops from the Criminals, isn't it? Especially when it comes to Cops dealing with People of Color.
Jeff, Uvalde had security fences, locked doors, and, if memory serves, school police. Not sure if the school had metal detectors. My point is that the security measures failed to keep the shooter out, then the police failed, as you noted, by sitting mostly on their asses for more than an hour.
Those security measures will seldom ~ if ever ~ succeed in keeping somebody who is resolutely determined to do a mass shooting from doing it. Just like it is very difficult ~ if not impossible ~ to effectively defend against a suicide bomber. i think that's been demonstrated by all the places where mass shootings have happened that did have all those security measures in place, and the shootings happened anyway.
a nominally Presbyterian private school in Cedar Rapids IA, all males of course required to attend weekly drills and classes in uniform--I avoided much of that by playing in the Band; several of my classmates went on to careers in Air Force.
It was a feeder system for junior officers to go into the Vietnam conveyer belt--I didn't follow that but two years later signed up for the Barry Plan in medical school to do 2 years of military service in the Navy so as to avoid getting drafted into the Army -+ resulting in a year in Vietnam as a Battalion Surgeon right out of my internship...
There is another term for making participation in JROTC mandatory, Bill.
It's called "involuntary servitude," aka Slavery. Didn't the United States have a Civil War about that? Wrap a flag around it and call it "in the nation's 'defense,'" and it is still Slavery. Just like The Draft was, and will be when it is re-implemented.
Which leads to the question: Would Your proposed National Service Corps ~ in which military service is just one option ~ be mandatory or voluntary?
So many things in high school, indeed in life, are mandatory. We must attend certain classes. We must pay our taxes. We must obey certain laws or suffer the consequences as scofflaws.
My sense is that a national service corps, to be meaningful, would be mandatory. But I'd also allow wide latitude for forms of service. Many high school students are already volunteers at hospitals, charities, etc., and that would count for me as service. Also, some students wouldn't have to perform such service (exemptions for health, hardship, and the like).
Students could also serve under the umbrella of their religious faith. I could see "geeky" students serving as computer helpers to seniors who are clueless about computers. Etc.
The idea is to foster a spirit of community and of giving back.
What do you do with those who refuse to serve? Who think they're being coerced and enslaved? Well, nothing. Give them a "D" or deficient grade in civics and move along.
i’ve already said what i think, Bill: Mandatory participation in any government program ~ military or civilian ~ is involuntary servitude, not service. It is Slavery just as much as forcing a Woman to carry to full term a fetus that she does not want.
It is not the function of governments to “foster a spirit of community and of giving back.” That is the function of Civil Society and the Economy, starting with the Family, Friends, and Neighbors, Colleagues, Coworkers, and other Compeers.
It is ~ or should be ~ the function of governments to protect the Human Rights of its Citizens; not to violate them by mandating involuntary participation in any government program over which those Citizens have no control, and thru which Citizens lose control of their own lives.
That's why students should be allowed to "serve" in non-governmental programs, e.g. church, private charities, hospitals and nursing homes, and the like, as I said.
Call it "civics in action." If we can make health and physical ed classes mandatory, why not civics where one can serve in a national conservation corps or similar (as above)?
i’m sorry, Bill, but involuntary “service” is still involuntary servitude, whether it be with government or non-government organizations and programs. Particularly if it mandated by the government that servitude in a non-government program is “optional.”
Private or corporate, profit or non-profit, secular or sectarian individuals, organizations, and institutions have the right to ~ and justifiably can and do ~ mandate behavior and activity within the context of what they are set up to accomplish.
Hence, health and physical education can be mandated IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS funded with taxpayer money. But are they mandated in private schools? Or does government mandate they be taught there, as well?
And as far as “civics in action”: i understand Civics to be the study of the Rights and Responsibilities, the Privileges and Obligations, and the Prerogatives and Duties of the Citizens of a nation. And like very much how the Delaware League of Women Voters put it:
“Civic education is the study of the theoretical, political and practical aspects of citizenship, as well as its rights and duties. It includes the study of civil law and civil code, and the study of government WITH ATTENTION TO THE ROLE OF CITIZENS―AS OPPOSED TO EXTERNAL FACTORS―IN THE OPERATION AND OVERSIGHT OF GOVERNMENT.” [EMPHASIS added.] https://my.lwv.org/delaware/government/what-civics
i have a very difficult time seeing how doing mandatory, involuntary “service” in a church, charity, hospital, or nursing home ~ let alone JROTC or some other variety of a “national youth service corps” ~ accomplishes any of that.
Service as servitude -- I'm not sure I'm buying that play on words, Jeff.
And "involuntary" -- there are lots of high school courses one has to take. That doesn't make school a prison, even though I remember a few high school malcontents used to compare school to prison.
Putting civics into action makes sense to me. One can study the theory of being a citizen; why not put some of it into practice? We could use more youthful passion in "our" country.
Back when I was "in the (public school) system," I very early recognized the similarities between school and prison. My elementary school for a few years in the mid-1960s was a fairly recently constructed campus, -- brutalist in architecture, and situated at the top of a hill -- which I soon started calling "The Rock." Little did my rebellious, smart-ass self know that in not too many more years, schools like that one, as well as high schools and junior high schools, would have metal detectors and would employ full-time police, whose uniforms and duties were uncomfortably similar to those of correctional facility officers. This was probably the genesis of one of my oldest personal sayings: "No satire is so outrageous that you won't someday see it become public policy, if you live long enough."
I agree with jb moebus and others who seem to assert that mandatory, coerced "service," whether or not related to the military, is indeed involuntary servitude, and has no place in our schools. I agree with you that hyper-militarized, recruitment-oriented, mandatory JROTC definitely does not belong there, although I don't see the harm in an optional course skewed more toward civics and history education, which turns the spotlight on, and facilitates the open and frank discussion of the military and its contribution to society; I'm not sure that I would rely upon JROTC as the only civics class, though. I wouldn't have a problem with teachers pointing out the importance of (voluntary) service and helping students learn about and participate in service opportunities. But, having taught for several years at a middle-and-high school that required "service credits" for graduation, and even after having seen the good that this program did for the students and the community, I cannot endorse a general "service mandate."
By the way, when you argue that "lots of courses are mandatory in school," I think that you unfortunately rely on one of the weaknesses of the "American approach" to (public) education, which doesn't provide much, if any support for your proposal, as I see it. That argument reminds me an awful lot of the people in my town, whose "go-to" response to the opponents of new taxes is to say, "we raise taxes in support of all kinds of good things. X is a good thing. Therefore, why not raise taxes on behalf of X?" Taxes themselves, like arbitrary mandates, are arguably bad means. Using bad means to further good ends can sometimes be effective, but I have always felt that such things are moves of desperation, and that those proposing them bear the burden of having tried "good" (or at least "less bad") means first, without success, before giving up and going with "last resorts." In fact, having to fall back to "last resorts" in war (given that war itself is also supposed to be a "last resort"), would be an excellent topic for the more academic, ethics-oriented JROTC course that I would so much prefer to the ones the military has been teaching recently.
And i’m not sure, Bill, how You can call mandatory “service” being, in fact, involuntary servitude a “play on words.” Service and Servitude are two completely different words for two completely different phenomenon and concepts of human activity..
And isn’t virtually everything as far as Education Curricula are concerned is mandatory at every level, from Grade School to Advanced Degree work?
And finally, the last time there was “youthful passion” in this country was during the 60s with the Vietnam protests, which ended at Kent State.
The youthful passion needed today doesn’t need to be employed doing mandatory volunteer work in churches, hospitals, old folks homes, charities, and the like.
This is an extremely valuable post, Bill. The idea that the military can come in and indoctrinate impressionable young minds is appalling. Teaching civics would be a very important service, but using non-qualified "teachers" to prep kids to enter the military....nope.
Also, your point about different kinds of service is something I completely espouse. I see the concept popping up on various forums from time to time. Serving a community or doing conservation work is a win-win on multiple levels.
Does one have "freedom of speech" on property that is owned, maintained, and operated by the government ~ in this case, the local school district ~ without getting permission to speak publicly? i very seriously doubt it.
And You are probably lucky, Dennis, that Your peacemongering didn't get You banned from the Infrastructure-Contractor-Congressional Complex.
Interestingly, even in the movie "Starship Troopers," which envisioned a neo-fascist society, high school students were taught a form of civics by military veterans but those students didn't wear military uniforms.
They had to wait to graduate before donning a uniform and joining the ranks.
Cub Scouts was enough for me. The uniforms, badges, ranks had no appeal. Thank goodness Mom was willing to do the projects and sew on the badges. I did like the field trips to the Mars candy company and the Pepperidge Farm bakery though. When it was time to be a Webelo (standing for We Belong I think) I knew I didn't.
This article shocked me; it reminded me of the Nazis in Germany before WWII training kids in school to spy on their parents and also to militarize them in various ways with racism and other forms of hate. We may not have gone that far yet, but it strikes me as only a matter of time the way fascism is now spreading in this country and in the world. I sent it to several friends who have connections to public schools so they would be aware. Thanks for writing this!
Get rid of high school JROTC. Also, all violent video games, movies, and music. Perverting kids with rainbow flag books and recruiting them in military, does surely have the inner motive to crucify all life. A rebellion against God, everything good and constructive. Misuse of all channels of activities that doesn't serve the constructive, harmonious, way of life. Excellent article.
Correct me if i am wrong, Bill, but as i understand it, Uvalde happened because the Police on the scene sat on their asses and did absolutely nothing while the whole event was unfolding; and did nothing until all the shooting was done.
When the metal detectors, locked doors, etc don't work, that's what Citizens are supposed to have Police for, isn't it?
Of course, in some parts of this country, it is becoming increasingly difficult to separate the Cops from the Criminals, isn't it? Especially when it comes to Cops dealing with People of Color.
Jeff, Uvalde had security fences, locked doors, and, if memory serves, school police. Not sure if the school had metal detectors. My point is that the security measures failed to keep the shooter out, then the police failed, as you noted, by sitting mostly on their asses for more than an hour.
Those security measures will seldom ~ if ever ~ succeed in keeping somebody who is resolutely determined to do a mass shooting from doing it. Just like it is very difficult ~ if not impossible ~ to effectively defend against a suicide bomber. i think that's been demonstrated by all the places where mass shootings have happened that did have all those security measures in place, and the shootings happened anyway.
This wasn't only for HS students in the 1960's --
We had 2 years of "compulsory" Air Force
ROTC at my undergrad college (Coe College),
a nominally Presbyterian private school in Cedar Rapids IA, all males of course required to attend weekly drills and classes in uniform--I avoided much of that by playing in the Band; several of my classmates went on to careers in Air Force.
It was a feeder system for junior officers to go into the Vietnam conveyer belt--I didn't follow that but two years later signed up for the Barry Plan in medical school to do 2 years of military service in the Navy so as to avoid getting drafted into the Army -+ resulting in a year in Vietnam as a Battalion Surgeon right out of my internship...
There is another term for making participation in JROTC mandatory, Bill.
It's called "involuntary servitude," aka Slavery. Didn't the United States have a Civil War about that? Wrap a flag around it and call it "in the nation's 'defense,'" and it is still Slavery. Just like The Draft was, and will be when it is re-implemented.
Which leads to the question: Would Your proposed National Service Corps ~ in which military service is just one option ~ be mandatory or voluntary?
What do you think, Jeff? Mandatory or voluntary?
So many things in high school, indeed in life, are mandatory. We must attend certain classes. We must pay our taxes. We must obey certain laws or suffer the consequences as scofflaws.
My sense is that a national service corps, to be meaningful, would be mandatory. But I'd also allow wide latitude for forms of service. Many high school students are already volunteers at hospitals, charities, etc., and that would count for me as service. Also, some students wouldn't have to perform such service (exemptions for health, hardship, and the like).
Students could also serve under the umbrella of their religious faith. I could see "geeky" students serving as computer helpers to seniors who are clueless about computers. Etc.
The idea is to foster a spirit of community and of giving back.
What do you do with those who refuse to serve? Who think they're being coerced and enslaved? Well, nothing. Give them a "D" or deficient grade in civics and move along.
i’ve already said what i think, Bill: Mandatory participation in any government program ~ military or civilian ~ is involuntary servitude, not service. It is Slavery just as much as forcing a Woman to carry to full term a fetus that she does not want.
It is not the function of governments to “foster a spirit of community and of giving back.” That is the function of Civil Society and the Economy, starting with the Family, Friends, and Neighbors, Colleagues, Coworkers, and other Compeers.
It is ~ or should be ~ the function of governments to protect the Human Rights of its Citizens; not to violate them by mandating involuntary participation in any government program over which those Citizens have no control, and thru which Citizens lose control of their own lives.
That's why students should be allowed to "serve" in non-governmental programs, e.g. church, private charities, hospitals and nursing homes, and the like, as I said.
Call it "civics in action." If we can make health and physical ed classes mandatory, why not civics where one can serve in a national conservation corps or similar (as above)?
i’m sorry, Bill, but involuntary “service” is still involuntary servitude, whether it be with government or non-government organizations and programs. Particularly if it mandated by the government that servitude in a non-government program is “optional.”
Private or corporate, profit or non-profit, secular or sectarian individuals, organizations, and institutions have the right to ~ and justifiably can and do ~ mandate behavior and activity within the context of what they are set up to accomplish.
Hence, health and physical education can be mandated IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS funded with taxpayer money. But are they mandated in private schools? Or does government mandate they be taught there, as well?
And as far as “civics in action”: i understand Civics to be the study of the Rights and Responsibilities, the Privileges and Obligations, and the Prerogatives and Duties of the Citizens of a nation. And like very much how the Delaware League of Women Voters put it:
“Civic education is the study of the theoretical, political and practical aspects of citizenship, as well as its rights and duties. It includes the study of civil law and civil code, and the study of government WITH ATTENTION TO THE ROLE OF CITIZENS―AS OPPOSED TO EXTERNAL FACTORS―IN THE OPERATION AND OVERSIGHT OF GOVERNMENT.” [EMPHASIS added.] https://my.lwv.org/delaware/government/what-civics
i have a very difficult time seeing how doing mandatory, involuntary “service” in a church, charity, hospital, or nursing home ~ let alone JROTC or some other variety of a “national youth service corps” ~ accomplishes any of that.
Service as servitude -- I'm not sure I'm buying that play on words, Jeff.
And "involuntary" -- there are lots of high school courses one has to take. That doesn't make school a prison, even though I remember a few high school malcontents used to compare school to prison.
Putting civics into action makes sense to me. One can study the theory of being a citizen; why not put some of it into practice? We could use more youthful passion in "our" country.
Back when I was "in the (public school) system," I very early recognized the similarities between school and prison. My elementary school for a few years in the mid-1960s was a fairly recently constructed campus, -- brutalist in architecture, and situated at the top of a hill -- which I soon started calling "The Rock." Little did my rebellious, smart-ass self know that in not too many more years, schools like that one, as well as high schools and junior high schools, would have metal detectors and would employ full-time police, whose uniforms and duties were uncomfortably similar to those of correctional facility officers. This was probably the genesis of one of my oldest personal sayings: "No satire is so outrageous that you won't someday see it become public policy, if you live long enough."
I agree with jb moebus and others who seem to assert that mandatory, coerced "service," whether or not related to the military, is indeed involuntary servitude, and has no place in our schools. I agree with you that hyper-militarized, recruitment-oriented, mandatory JROTC definitely does not belong there, although I don't see the harm in an optional course skewed more toward civics and history education, which turns the spotlight on, and facilitates the open and frank discussion of the military and its contribution to society; I'm not sure that I would rely upon JROTC as the only civics class, though. I wouldn't have a problem with teachers pointing out the importance of (voluntary) service and helping students learn about and participate in service opportunities. But, having taught for several years at a middle-and-high school that required "service credits" for graduation, and even after having seen the good that this program did for the students and the community, I cannot endorse a general "service mandate."
By the way, when you argue that "lots of courses are mandatory in school," I think that you unfortunately rely on one of the weaknesses of the "American approach" to (public) education, which doesn't provide much, if any support for your proposal, as I see it. That argument reminds me an awful lot of the people in my town, whose "go-to" response to the opponents of new taxes is to say, "we raise taxes in support of all kinds of good things. X is a good thing. Therefore, why not raise taxes on behalf of X?" Taxes themselves, like arbitrary mandates, are arguably bad means. Using bad means to further good ends can sometimes be effective, but I have always felt that such things are moves of desperation, and that those proposing them bear the burden of having tried "good" (or at least "less bad") means first, without success, before giving up and going with "last resorts." In fact, having to fall back to "last resorts" in war (given that war itself is also supposed to be a "last resort"), would be an excellent topic for the more academic, ethics-oriented JROTC course that I would so much prefer to the ones the military has been teaching recently.
And i’m not sure, Bill, how You can call mandatory “service” being, in fact, involuntary servitude a “play on words.” Service and Servitude are two completely different words for two completely different phenomenon and concepts of human activity..
And isn’t virtually everything as far as Education Curricula are concerned is mandatory at every level, from Grade School to Advanced Degree work?
And finally, the last time there was “youthful passion” in this country was during the 60s with the Vietnam protests, which ended at Kent State.
The youthful passion needed today doesn’t need to be employed doing mandatory volunteer work in churches, hospitals, old folks homes, charities, and the like.
The Libertarian Institutes Connor Freeman explained what sort of passion is needed now and where in his article “The American People Must Draw Red Lines Now” at https://libertarianinstitute.org/articles/the-american-people-must-draw-red-lines-now/ .
ps: Thank You for the link to the NYT article and its links.
This is an extremely valuable post, Bill. The idea that the military can come in and indoctrinate impressionable young minds is appalling. Teaching civics would be a very important service, but using non-qualified "teachers" to prep kids to enter the military....nope.
Also, your point about different kinds of service is something I completely espouse. I see the concept popping up on various forums from time to time. Serving a community or doing conservation work is a win-win on multiple levels.
How dare you exercise your freedom of speech!
Seriously, their reaction shows how unfree we are.
Does one have "freedom of speech" on property that is owned, maintained, and operated by the government ~ in this case, the local school district ~ without getting permission to speak publicly? i very seriously doubt it.
And You are probably lucky, Dennis, that Your peacemongering didn't get You banned from the Infrastructure-Contractor-Congressional Complex.