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Think it's past TIME to admit this is OUR WAR to punish Russia; Ukrainians are merely PAWNS in our terrible and deadly game.

CNN: "However, as Ukraine pleads for more advanced weaponry and tanks, US and Western officials are urging Ukrainian officials to shift focus from that brutal fight and prioritize instead a potential offensive in the south, using a different style of fighting that takes advantage of the billions of dollars in new military hardware recently committed by Western allies. The US specifically wants Ukraine to focus on a style of mechanized maneuver warfare that uses rapid, unanticipated movements against Russia, sources familiar with their discussions said."

Lemee' see; Looks like we are pretty much running the show with our thinly disguised effort to EXPORT DEATH; which seems to be what our economy is based on.

Too bad that no U.S. politician wants to appear WEAK and support a negotiated solution.

I guess it's difficult to fight a WAR on TERROR when you are actually the TERRORIST

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All spot on except that you are too easy on the U.S. politicians.

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Rand Paul is probably the most anti-war politician and a number of other Republican politicians seem to be skeptical as well. All the elected Democrat politicians are all in for war. A few of them from The Squad issued a letter saying perhaps we should negotiate but they pulled back the statement after being warned that such a message might aid the Republicans. Perhaps we should re-title this the Nancy Pelosi war.

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I think that Rand Paul is, indeed, a genuinely anti-war politician, and anti-militarist too, just as his dad was and is. Perhaps the best of a bad lot. I have my doubts about the Republican "holdouts". I think that all they are worried about is the disappearing money, and they like the fact that they can use that egregious monetary irresponsibility to give the Democrats a black eye. The Democrats, as you say, are pitiful. But the Republicans likewise. (And these people keep getting elected? Nancy Pelosi? Adam Schiff? Lindsey Graham? Mitch McConnell? Chuck Schumer? et-bloody-cetera.) I think that it was Groucho Marx (correct me if I err) who said, "I could carve a better man out of a banana." There are few politicians about whom I would not say that.

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Without indulging in predictions about who will win this awful war, I have to agree with what you quoted from Curtin:

. . . we are being subjected to a vast tapestry of lies told by the corporate media for their bosses, as the US continues its doomed efforts to control the world. It is not Russia that is desperate now, but propagandists such as the writers of this strident and stupid editorial [by the New York Times]. It is not the Russian people who need to wake up, as they claim, but the American people and those who still cling to the myth that The New York Times Corporation is an organ of truth. It is the Ministry of Truth with its newspeak, doublespeak, and its efforts to change the past.

If you ask: “Which is it? Is this a war that the U.S. and NATO must win, along with Ukraine, to stop an evil and expansionist dictator, or is this a war that the U.S. and NATO provoked, and surely will lose, given Russia’s military superiority empowered in part by the justice of its cause?“ you provide two false alternatives.

Putin is not “an evil and expansionist dictator” and so, if there were any reason for thinking that this is “a war that the U.S. and NATO must win” that could not be the reason why they “must win” it. And this IS this a war that the U.S. and NATO provoked; but they may not lose it, although perhaps they will arrange a nuclear conflagration so that everyone will lose everything.

People who talk like Simon Tisdall, Jens Stoltenberg, Boris Johnson, Lindsey Graham, Joe Biden, Ursula von der Leyen, and all that lot (they are, indeed, legion), are too stupid and too evil to live but all of their premises are false, and have been proven to be false. People are entitled to take sides on this awful war only if they speak out of something other than ignorance and mendacity. “What surrounds us . . . is a vast tapestry of lies, upon which we feed”, said Harold Pinter, in 2005. (Curtin didn’t invent that line.) https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/literature/2005/pinter/lecture/ If you read Pinter’s speech, you’ll notice that nothing has really changed since 2005, except perhaps to get worse.

“It’s high time both sides said ‘no’ to killing, ‘no’ to yet more war.” The thing is, however, that there are more than just two sides. Zalensky (a token name for one gang of heinous villains) refuses to say ‘no’. The U.S. and NATO (more token labels, for several more gangs of heinous villains) refuse to say ‘no’. Putin (another token name, but not for a gang of heinous villains) has already said ‘no’. Almost all of the world beyond the Collective West has said ‘no’. But those who have said ‘no’ can have no effect. One side that is left out is the Ukrainian people (not the Ukra-Nazis)—the ones whose sons, husbands and fathers are doing all the dying. If they said “no”, the war would be over. But perhaps they are not allowed to say ‘no’. What a tragedy.

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My reading is that this war was close to being settled back in March via peace talks in Istanbul but Zelensky was told (probably by Boris Johnson with the blessing of Joe Biden) that the two administrations preferred to have Russia as an enemy. Shame on them. All that death and destruction could have been avoided. And now we get a continuing stream of lies to cover it all up. And the death and destruction go on. Shame on them. It ought to be a crime. Because it is a crime.

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And a greater shame on the American People, Alex, for letting their government get away with all this.

But it is easy to see and understand exactly why Americans have ignored this War; just like they have ignored their government's 21-year "Forever War" since 9/11.

It is not costing them a dime of Treasure [that's part of why the US Debt Limit has been breached] or a drop of Blood [that's what we have an All Volunteer Force for].

If the American government is guilty of War Crimes, the American People are fully compliant enablers and accessories.

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Jan 24, 2023Edited
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It is difficult indeed for ordinary people to have influence in political decisions. I grew up in the Vietnam era. There were many demonstrations against the war. What it got was LBJ declined to run for a second elected term but Nixon continued the war. And then (according to one of his top aides) Nixon started the War on Drugs to get back at the kids who were protesting. He couldn't jail them for protesting but he could jail them for smoking pot. Fortunately the Vietnam war came to an end, like all wars do (except I guess for the war on drugs). But the damage was done. BTW, here's Reason magazine on the 20th anniversary of our war in/with Iraq: https://reason.com/2023/02/05/examining-americas-war-in-iraq-after-20-years/

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The bottom-line, bullet-hits-the-bone fact of the matter, Bill, is that the objective of more weaponry for Ukraine is not even indecisive "victory," whatever that word means or has ever meant.

The objective is to prolong that war for as long as possible ~ death and destruction to the Land, Country, Nation, and People of Ukraine be damned ~ and to keep the cash flowing to the MICC.

And to give the American People something else to fear besides a resurgent Pandemic, inflation coupled with recession if not depression, food, fuel, and energy shortages, mass shootings, and default on the National Debt, among other things. To say nothing of "Domestic Terrorists," whatever that term means.

At least until China is ready to launch the Eastern Theatre hot war of Cold War II.

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Quite correct, I believe, that the objective of more (and more...what are their limits?) weaponry is to prolong the war. The script for this is visible in the Rand Corp. Memorandum of 2019, which makes it clear that the goal from the outset was to bait Russia and entangle it long enough to severely wound/bleed/ weaken it to a state where it could no longer challenge U.S. hegemony. I think the neocons who run the foreign policy ship feel they need to do that before they turn their attention to China; probably using the same baiting tactic of a proxy war in Taiwan.

I feel for the Ukrainian and Russian victims of this war; and I feel for those likely to suffer in Taiwan and other places should this agenda be played out.

And lastly, I feel for the poor stupid Americans and their children, who will also ultimately pay the costs for all of this. Maybe the adults who today have surrendered all critical thinking to partisan cheerleading don't deserve pity, but in a way, part of their stupidity was a natural product of their culture and part was intentionally engendered by master propagandists. So I will try to keep some compassion for all.

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"What good is a used-up world and how can it be worth having?"

Sting wrote that a long time ago, on his "The Soul Cages" album. As regards Ukraine, this is not a rhetorical question. I remember the visual evidence of the recapture and liberation of Mosul from a couple years ago, which reminded me of photos of Dresden from 1945: mounds of rubble as far as the eye could see. Victory and defeat look essentially the same these days. I would imagine they smell about the same, as well. The people of Ukraine are already on the losing end, no matter who ultimately claims victory. Mark Milley says Ukraine will win, but it will be another year, at least. How will anyone tell the difference?

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Interesting article from Tyler Durden about George Soros, the new world order, NATO, the war against Russia, and using Eastern European soldiers as cannon fodder in NATO wars. https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/george-soros-urged-use-eastern-european-soldiers-reduce-risk-body-bags-nato-countries

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Good article on The American Conservative on turning Russia/Putin into the our latest bogeyman: https://www.theamericanconservative.com/creating-a-russian-bogeyman/

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Yes it is. Thanks for the link, Alex

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2023 DOOMSDAY CLOCK ANNOUNCEMENT January 24, 2023

A Time Of Unprecedented Danger: It Is 90 Seconds To Midnight.

This year, the Science and Security Board of the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists moves the hands of the Doomsday Clock forward, largely (though not exclusively) because of the mounting dangers of the war in Ukraine. THE CLOCK NOW STANDS AT 90 SECONDS TO MIDNIGHT—THE CLOSEST TO GLOBAL CATASTROPHE IT HAS EVER BEEN.

Full Statement and video of announcement at https://thebulletin.org/doomsday-clock/ . [EMPHASIS added.]

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The assumption that we make—and that sane, honest people can't help making—is that our political leaders actually care about such things and that they might therefore act differently if they read things like the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists. But they don't actually care. That's where they've got us, we us who naively believe that they do care. As jg moebus says below, the problem with ending this war is that those people don't want the war to end. They don't care that Ukrainians are dying and that Ukraine is being destroyed. For them, that's entirely beside the point. Let 'em die. They don't care about anything but holding power and serving the cause of the American hegemony, which is the trough at which they feed. The European politicians don't care either. They don't care that their own populations are suffering. That's not on their agenda. Many of them must be getting paid quite a lot to be such pitiful, slavish servants of their American masters. They pay as much attention to rational discussion as would your cat. It's not that they disagree (whether reasonably or unreasonably), it's that it's irrelevant to anything in their world view. We must learn to view them all as cats. Cats just don't give a s**t.

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The incentives for our political leaders are on the side of war. If they were fighting it personally it might be different of course. But they aren't. And they say humans are civilized?

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i agree completely with everything You said, mikjall, except Your concluding judgement of Cats.

Cats give a s**t about Lots of things. The problem is that what they give a s**t about is seldom, if ever, what Humans give a s**t about.

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Right you are!

Rephrasing: I think that cats don't give a s**t about anything except their own, immediate projects; and they never, ever give a s**t about anything that anyone says to them. That makes them paradigmatic counterparts of our leaders and politicians.

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I like the saying, If cats could blog, they wouldn't.

You can learn a lot from a cat.

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Heh. Thinking about, if Cats could do a lot of things Humans can do, they wouldn’t.

And i can only completely agree about what a Human can learn from a Cat, Bill. i have had the pleasure/privilege of being "the Person" to ten Dogs over the course of my life, but only to one Cat.

And i can honestly say that in the couple of years Bailey the Calico had me, i learned more from her than i did from all those Dogs over all those years. And i learned a Hell of a lot from all those Dogs.

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Love it!

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Heh. Roger that. But one big, very paradigmatic difference between Cats and our leaders and politicians is that Cats are very good at:

~ First, avoiding situations that are completely beyond their control and might put them [and especially their Kittens, if they have any] in danger; and

~ Second and more importantly, if somehow they get into such a situation, they are Very good at figuring out how to get out of it.

There have been very, Very few “leaders and politicians” throughout recorded Human history about whom the same thing can be said. And as far as i can tell, there are none today.

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performance of m-1 tanks in Iraqi hands against isolated was uniformly poor.

performance of leopard tanks in Syria was similarly poor.

effecting the air land battle which m-1 is a very small part is beyond the Ukrainians, even as supported by awol us sof.

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Doesn't Russia have complete mastery in the air over Ukraine? I'd think this would doom any tank effort, no matter how large, particularly one that was moving toward Russia.

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After getting their Tanks, this is how they say “Thanks”… :

UKRAINE WILL NEED 'FIGHTER JETS' AFTER TANKS, FORMER PRESIDENT SAYS

While Germany’s Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine will "improve the situation", what Kyiv really needs are fighter jets, Ukraine's former president told Euronews.

"The real game changer now is the jet fighter. We should immediately launch training programmes for Ukrainian pilots and prepare to deliver them to Ukraine," said Petro Poroshenko.

NATO countries have spent months debating whether to send modern battle tanks to Ukraine because of concerns it could be seen as an escalation by Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Chancellor Olaf Scholz agreed to do so on Wednesday and invited other countries to send theirs too. The US also announced plans to send at least 30 M1 Abrams tanks to Ukraine.

However, a missing element for offensive and defensive operations is still air power.

Ukraine has been asking the West to provide modern fighter jets to protect Ukrainian skies from Russia since the beginning of the war. However, so far, none have been delivered.

"We also need attack helicopters and long-range missiles to reach logistic bases and Russian commanding centres. We should receive these now before Russia attempts its great spring offensive," Poroshenko said.

"In the beginning, Western powers said they will help Ukraine 'survive'. Not anymore, now, we should win. But to achieve this, we need to strengthen Ukrainian armed forces," he added.

[And in case anybody had noticed, he concluded with] “Please don’t allow the corruption scandal to undermine trust between Ukraine and Europe," he added. [Obviously quite sure the scandal is not a problem here in America for its government and media, or its people

Ukraine is no stranger to corruption. In 2021, the country was ranked 122 out of 180 countries in Transparency International’s ranking of corrupt states.

Full article at https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/01/25/ukraine-will-need-fighter-jets-after-tanks-former-president-says

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