Denise, I have been working on my high school buddies trying to get them to escape the trance Israel has worked on Americans for our entire lives. They are intelligent and moral men but their stubborn favoring of Israel in spite of the history and facts has convinced me of the stubbornness of the mind. Emotion will trump reason easily, e…
Denise, I have been working on my high school buddies trying to get them to escape the trance Israel has worked on Americans for our entire lives. They are intelligent and moral men but their stubborn favoring of Israel in spite of the history and facts has convinced me of the stubbornness of the mind. Emotion will trump reason easily, even in people who consider themselves quite unemotional and rational.
In this case there is always a knee-jerk reaction of "both sides are equally at fault, a pox on both, it's a mess they both made, there is nothing to be done" which is ignorance on parade in the face of sustained theft of land now reaching a crescendo. My friends think there is a balance (!!!) but our government has been all in for Israel for decades. I am gradually getting though to them that Uncle Sam is acting in their name when Biden says "we" stand with Israel. Let the zombie in chief speak for himself!
Fortunately, as lifelong friends they are receptive to my pleas and continue to listen. I give them nothing but facts. The worst thrown at me is that I am a "firehose" with which I must agree. I consider it a major victory that I have convinced them to write their reps calling for a ceasefire. My work is still in progress.
At the risk of sounding like your buddies, however, I do believe there is fault on both sides. Hamas (not to be confused with civilian Palestinians) was not right in carrying out a terrorist attack. Period. And Israel has been over-the-top wrong for decades in its unconscionable treatment of Palestinians. Ordinary Gazans are caught between a militia they don't want and can't control; and the Israeli juggernaut. Meanwhile, the U.S. refuses to parse the situation (hmmm....AIPAC?) and is doing very little to stand up for the Gazans, as they are obliterated.
Biden cautioned Israel---Netanyahu---not to react as the U.S. did after 9/11, but Bibi wants to save his own hide. Therefore, he's completely ignoring all pleas to cease and desist, while the U.S. abets and assists his viciousness. The Gazans are paying the ultimate price for what amounts to endless political maneuvering, with, of course, dollar signs attached.
RAMALLAH, West Bank — More than two months into Israel's war against Hamas, the militant group's popularity appears to be rising dramatically among Palestinians in the West Bank. Surveys conducted since Oct. 7 appear to reflect the surge of support for Hamas in the West Bank.
"Three months ago ... we had 12% support for Hamas in the West Bank, and today it is 44%, so that's more than tripled," says Khalil Shikaki, director of the Palestinian Center for Policy and Research.
Public support for Hamas in the Gaza Strip also rose modestly during the same period, from 38% to 42%, according to the center's survey conducted from Nov. 22-Dec. 2. The survey, published Dec. 13, found less than half of Palestinians support Hamas as an organization, but respondents showed "wide public support for Hamas' offensive" against Israel. A previous poll conducted by the group Arab World for Research and Development in late October and early November found 68% of Palestinians in the West Bank supported Hamas' Oct. 7 attack.
They told NPR that years of negotiations between Palestinians, Israeli leaders and diplomats from the U.S. and other countries toward a two-state solution have brought Palestinians nothing — no independence and no relief from Israeli occupation. Pollster Shikaki says......in surveys of Palestinians, a majority now believe "if they want to become independent and free of Israeli occupation, they must resort to armed struggle." "And when they look around at who can deliver armed struggle, they look at what Hamas had done on Oct. 7," Shikaki says.
Even many moderates say the time has come for Hamas' militant, armed approach to resistance and confrontation with Israel.
I'm not a big believer in polls. Absent documentation on their methodology, vehicle for communication, targeted demographic (and process for determining same), wording of questions, and so on, they don’t mean much. As infrastructure in much of Gaza has been destroyed, it's not clear to me how polls could even be taken.
Here in the U.S., as just one example, polls conducted via landlines invariably reach almost exclusively elderly, stay-at-home people. And many people won't answer cell calls from unrecognized numbers. Meaning that any results therefrom are going to skew toward older people who are desperate to talk to someone.
And wording of questions---along with format (scale, either/or, multiple choice)---can produce any desired outcome.
And it's the young people who are getting behind Hamas.
They are tired of their old folk sitting around and getting nothing from the Palestinian Authority - unofficially the State of Palestine. This Fatah-controlled government body has always proved to be worthless in fighting for causes of the Palestinian people.
Wiki: In the Palestinian legislative elections on 25 January 2006, Hamas emerged victorious and nominated Ismail Haniyeh as the Authority's Prime Minister. However, the national unity Palestinian government effectively collapsed, when a violent conflict between Hamas and Fatah erupted, mainly in the Gaza Strip. After the Gaza Strip was taken over by Hamas on 14 June 2007, the Authority's Chairman Mahmoud Abbas dismissed the Hamas-led unity government and appointed Salam Fayyad as Prime Minister, dismissing Haniyeh. The move wasn't recognized by Hamas, thus resulting in two separate administrations – the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and a rival Hamas government in the Gaza Strip. The reconciliation process to unite the Palestinian governments achieved some progress over the years but had failed to produce a re-unification.
The Palestinian Authority received financial assistance from the European Union and the United States (approximately US$1 billion combined in 2005). All direct aid was suspended on 7 April 2006, as a result of the Hamas victory in parliamentary elections. Shortly thereafter, aid payments resumed, but were channeled directly to the offices of Mahmoud Abbass the President of the Palestinian Authority since 2005 in the West Bank. Since January 2009, when Mahmoud Abbas' term as president was supposed to have ended and elections were to have been called, Hamas supporters and many in the Gaza Strip have withdrawn recognition for his presidency.
The State of Palestine became recognized by 138 nations and since November 2012, the United Nations voted to recognize the State of Palestine under the PA as a non-member UN observer state.
The Palestinian National Authority is an authoritarian regime that has not held elections in over 15-years; it has been criticized for human rights abuses, including cracking down on journalists, human rights activists, and dissent against its rule."
And as usual the US does not agree with the people's choice to govern themselves and kept providing a pittance of Aid to the Party the Palestinians do not want. You can count on the Yanks to be stirring up the shit and not minding their own business. Throwing gasoline on the fire.
Denise, I have been working on my high school buddies trying to get them to escape the trance Israel has worked on Americans for our entire lives. They are intelligent and moral men but their stubborn favoring of Israel in spite of the history and facts has convinced me of the stubbornness of the mind. Emotion will trump reason easily, even in people who consider themselves quite unemotional and rational.
In this case there is always a knee-jerk reaction of "both sides are equally at fault, a pox on both, it's a mess they both made, there is nothing to be done" which is ignorance on parade in the face of sustained theft of land now reaching a crescendo. My friends think there is a balance (!!!) but our government has been all in for Israel for decades. I am gradually getting though to them that Uncle Sam is acting in their name when Biden says "we" stand with Israel. Let the zombie in chief speak for himself!
Fortunately, as lifelong friends they are receptive to my pleas and continue to listen. I give them nothing but facts. The worst thrown at me is that I am a "firehose" with which I must agree. I consider it a major victory that I have convinced them to write their reps calling for a ceasefire. My work is still in progress.
I applaud your efforts, Clif.
At the risk of sounding like your buddies, however, I do believe there is fault on both sides. Hamas (not to be confused with civilian Palestinians) was not right in carrying out a terrorist attack. Period. And Israel has been over-the-top wrong for decades in its unconscionable treatment of Palestinians. Ordinary Gazans are caught between a militia they don't want and can't control; and the Israeli juggernaut. Meanwhile, the U.S. refuses to parse the situation (hmmm....AIPAC?) and is doing very little to stand up for the Gazans, as they are obliterated.
Biden cautioned Israel---Netanyahu---not to react as the U.S. did after 9/11, but Bibi wants to save his own hide. Therefore, he's completely ignoring all pleas to cease and desist, while the U.S. abets and assists his viciousness. The Gazans are paying the ultimate price for what amounts to endless political maneuvering, with, of course, dollar signs attached.
"Ordinary Gazans are caught between a militia they don't want and can't control..."
December 21st:
https://www.npr.org/2023/12/21/1217758546/hamas-support-palestinians-west-bank
RAMALLAH, West Bank — More than two months into Israel's war against Hamas, the militant group's popularity appears to be rising dramatically among Palestinians in the West Bank. Surveys conducted since Oct. 7 appear to reflect the surge of support for Hamas in the West Bank.
"Three months ago ... we had 12% support for Hamas in the West Bank, and today it is 44%, so that's more than tripled," says Khalil Shikaki, director of the Palestinian Center for Policy and Research.
Public support for Hamas in the Gaza Strip also rose modestly during the same period, from 38% to 42%, according to the center's survey conducted from Nov. 22-Dec. 2. The survey, published Dec. 13, found less than half of Palestinians support Hamas as an organization, but respondents showed "wide public support for Hamas' offensive" against Israel. A previous poll conducted by the group Arab World for Research and Development in late October and early November found 68% of Palestinians in the West Bank supported Hamas' Oct. 7 attack.
They told NPR that years of negotiations between Palestinians, Israeli leaders and diplomats from the U.S. and other countries toward a two-state solution have brought Palestinians nothing — no independence and no relief from Israeli occupation. Pollster Shikaki says......in surveys of Palestinians, a majority now believe "if they want to become independent and free of Israeli occupation, they must resort to armed struggle." "And when they look around at who can deliver armed struggle, they look at what Hamas had done on Oct. 7," Shikaki says.
Even many moderates say the time has come for Hamas' militant, armed approach to resistance and confrontation with Israel.
I'm not a big believer in polls. Absent documentation on their methodology, vehicle for communication, targeted demographic (and process for determining same), wording of questions, and so on, they don’t mean much. As infrastructure in much of Gaza has been destroyed, it's not clear to me how polls could even be taken.
Here in the U.S., as just one example, polls conducted via landlines invariably reach almost exclusively elderly, stay-at-home people. And many people won't answer cell calls from unrecognized numbers. Meaning that any results therefrom are going to skew toward older people who are desperate to talk to someone.
And wording of questions---along with format (scale, either/or, multiple choice)---can produce any desired outcome.
SURVEY's are different than anonymous POLL's Denise.
A lot of the methodology used here was interviewing representative people in the street. Mixing with the displaced people of Gaza.
Listening to the local scuttlebutt. Talking to folks in shelters, hospitals, and first responders.
If you want to know the truth - ask a Taxi driver! LOL
There's no documentation of what they did and exactly what they asked. Also, there's reference to a, "pollster."
Yeah, true Denise.
And you are right some of the information was gathered from polling.
Here are 2-videos showing support for Hamas is growing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0pwkbA0js4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aejuPklulac
And it's the young people who are getting behind Hamas.
They are tired of their old folk sitting around and getting nothing from the Palestinian Authority - unofficially the State of Palestine. This Fatah-controlled government body has always proved to be worthless in fighting for causes of the Palestinian people.
Wiki: In the Palestinian legislative elections on 25 January 2006, Hamas emerged victorious and nominated Ismail Haniyeh as the Authority's Prime Minister. However, the national unity Palestinian government effectively collapsed, when a violent conflict between Hamas and Fatah erupted, mainly in the Gaza Strip. After the Gaza Strip was taken over by Hamas on 14 June 2007, the Authority's Chairman Mahmoud Abbas dismissed the Hamas-led unity government and appointed Salam Fayyad as Prime Minister, dismissing Haniyeh. The move wasn't recognized by Hamas, thus resulting in two separate administrations – the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and a rival Hamas government in the Gaza Strip. The reconciliation process to unite the Palestinian governments achieved some progress over the years but had failed to produce a re-unification.
The Palestinian Authority received financial assistance from the European Union and the United States (approximately US$1 billion combined in 2005). All direct aid was suspended on 7 April 2006, as a result of the Hamas victory in parliamentary elections. Shortly thereafter, aid payments resumed, but were channeled directly to the offices of Mahmoud Abbass the President of the Palestinian Authority since 2005 in the West Bank. Since January 2009, when Mahmoud Abbas' term as president was supposed to have ended and elections were to have been called, Hamas supporters and many in the Gaza Strip have withdrawn recognition for his presidency.
The State of Palestine became recognized by 138 nations and since November 2012, the United Nations voted to recognize the State of Palestine under the PA as a non-member UN observer state.
The Palestinian National Authority is an authoritarian regime that has not held elections in over 15-years; it has been criticized for human rights abuses, including cracking down on journalists, human rights activists, and dissent against its rule."
And as usual the US does not agree with the people's choice to govern themselves and kept providing a pittance of Aid to the Party the Palestinians do not want. You can count on the Yanks to be stirring up the shit and not minding their own business. Throwing gasoline on the fire.