Instead of housing the unhoused, America with its bombs and missiles is unhousing (and killing) tens of thousands of innocents in the land -- Palestine -- where Jesus walked. That's a fine legacy as we approach Christmas.
America is a Christian nation? Yeah, and the moon is made of Swiss cheese. It's all a charade, since the US National Security State doesn't give a damn about anything else, including homelessness in this country, except promoting the global hegemonic project. Full stop. As for the homelessness problem, you can thank the gangster capitalist system which has allowed the likes of Blackstone and other private equity firms who have bought hundreds of thousands of homes and jacked up rent prices to gouge the working people of this country. But it's all legal under our glorious "rules-based order."
There is a great Scene in a Clint Eastwood Western where some Townfolk are displaced from the only Hotel in Town Rented Rooms due to Fire when Clint shames the Local Padre' Minister who is corrupt as the day is long to put up the Homeless in his Church now of course the "Holy Man" complies reluctantly, but the kicker-- this corrupt fucker won't Charge these poor Folk one more Dime than the Hotel was!!! lmao
There's a sometimes-used retort, "This is why we can't have nice things". For me, it is most applicable to the Imperium's commitment to buying, using and deploying weaponry in the course of provoking, starting and perpetuating wars around the globe. That obscene spending isn't even questioned by more than a very few among Congress; in fact we've seen too often how Congress will inflate the President's request. And as is frequently noted, there is near perfect bipartisanship.
That's a major reason why we can't have 'nice' things like adequate shelter , health care, education, or even safe bridges, lead-free water, or adequate funding for national parks, etc. it's part of the bigger reason- the sacred elephant in the room- rapacious capitalism whose adherents have captured the supposed 'democracy' and replaced it with something far less democratic. The interests of Wall Street, and private capital generally, are the ones furthered in war. And it is their representatives who take control over housing in many places (e.g. take a look at Blackrock's holdings); who speculate and buy up control over water, who push the ;military conflicts with Russia, China, Iran, Venezuela and many other states which dared stake out an independent future for the benefit of their citizens.
At the local level, such as mine, City Councils - even those dominated by Democrats- talk a lot about 'affordable housing'. It's the most frequently used phrase during their deliberations. Yet they refuse to do what is necessary to address the problem, because The People Who Really Matter (TPWRM) or matter most to them are their patrons in the Real Estate sector- the speculators, 'investors', developers, mortgage lenders, etc. - and all they want is further deregulation, and if possible, a few more subsidies to their already considerable profits.
i know this because i served on a municipal Affordable Housing Commission for 3 years;, providing a close-up and in-depth look at the nature of the problems and the tools used to address it;; and our consensus recommendation was rejected out of hand because of developer pressure on the bought Council.
We could have nice things. But it's not likely with the political system we've all inherited. As long as $$ controls both elections and policies- expect no more than platitudes and crumbs of cake.
I enjoy the thoughtful debates that Christopher Hitchens gave us throughout his lifetime. We are very fortunate to have these videos to appreciate the strength and ultimate capabilities of the human mind.
Christopher Hitchens vs. Rabbi David Wolpe: The Great God Debate.
Probably the best debate on this subject in front of an American audience in modern times.
Wolpe, was lucid, sharp, educated, funny and kind. Hitchens still obliterated him.
Then how do you explain cancer cases among devoted Christians then? Does "God" just decide to give them cancer too, for kicks? Hitchens was a heavy smoker. There's no mystery over how he got cancer. It happens just as often to religious people, which suggests - along with the complete inefficacy of prayer - that there is no higher power.
'I will pray for you' Is literally as good as doing absolutely nothing at all. One could have just as well said 'I'll bring you cookies.'
"I am quite sure that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's."-- Mark Twain
"We despise all reverences and all objects of reverence which are outside the pale of our list of sacred things. And, yet, with strange inconsistency, we are shocked when other people despise and defile the things which are holy to us."-- Mark Twain
I know some fundamentalist Christians who say all the rock stars have sold out to the devil. Lucifer seems to give long life, riches and fame while God demands poverty suffering and the hope of eternal bliss later on. What Corp does God represent?
Can you bring me those cookies before the infinite loving God (take your pick) turns us all into cinders with armegeddon? Chocolate chip please. I guess burnt is better than soggy with a flood. Better Fed ex them over night.
Didn't you hear? Santa upgraded his sleigh to a nuclear capable stealth version. I'm sure I'll miss him. It's all on my latest post "A White House Christmas "
By the way keep the Twain quotes coming. I can't stop laughing.
"The God and Father of Jesus Christ the Jew, is ALL Good, a Peace Maker, a Healer of the inside of Humans, and a forgiver of SINS for those who sincerely repent..blah..blah...blah.... is only a CLAIM! Without evidence!
How do we know what Gods intentions were? More, to the point, how do we even know this "God" existed.
And don't get us started on how wars your "Peace Maker" started in the Bible! War is mentioned over 400-times in the Bible. God allowed war to protect and bring glory to himself......dare I go on!
Together they will be like warriors in battle trampling their enemy into the mud of the streets. They will fight because the LORD is with them, and they will put the enemy horsemen to shame. - Zechariah 10:5
I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. -Zechariah 14:2
Maybe Netanyahu has been reading the Bible too much lately eh!
Estimates are that there are 500 thousand homeless in the US. If all the churches opened their doors to house them it would be more than sufficient to accommodate them all. Most churches have kitchens and bathrooms and could establish sleeping facilities with a little creativity. Food could be provided free from all the wasted food from supermarkets and restaurants. A minister would be there for guidance and oversight. There are more than enough churches in the country to make this possible. So as a suggestion, why don't you get this underway? It's the Christian thing to do.
As far as Armegeddon is concerned I thought that the Book Of Revelations said it was imminent. The rapture is going to save the believers from the suffering of the impending catastrophe. At least that's what I have been told by all the fundamentalist Christians I've known. The Bible is after all the incontrovertible word of God.
"The meek shall inherit the earth"?
"The last shall be first"?
"Do unto others......"?
"Thou shalt not kill"?
I personally believe that if the Bible were done as the old Readers Digest condensed version and condensed to the ten commandments things would be a lot clearer and better for all. It would avoid a lot of confusion.
I remember Pat Robertson saying "Christians deserve all the money." And also "We should nuke Venezuela" when they offered to help the victims of hurricane Katrina.
Then of course there was Jim Bakker and his lovely wife Tammy with her tears ruining her makeup. Probably thinking about her devout husband in a threesome raping a college student. Tammy it seems was too "loose" for Jim's liking. "Send your social security check and we'll pray for you!"
And let's not forget Hal Lindsey and the Late Great Planet Earth . It's all in there.
My ex wife was born again several times. Probably several times more after the divorce. So I've heard and seen it all . After 40 years to get over the ex I just find it humourous now.
If you’re looking at the Catholic Church alone, “God” has at least — and we’re putting a huge emphasis on “at least” - $73-billion, with a "B", in assets.
Make that $73,000,000,000.00.
The Catholic Church has vast assets, including billions in real estate and priceless art, not to mention the Vatican Bank. But its finances are largely secret. Tallying that immense wealth is impossible, according to experts.
The New York Times noted the church is a developer, with a real estate arm that “controls leases and office space rentals in the buildings it owns.”
Well here's something else to think about. Hawaii just received $32 million from the federal government for homelessness. Senator Schotz gave 8 million to a Catholic charity who used it to purchase a building with property and intend to house 18 yes eighteen homeless people in it in a year or two. I wrote them a polite email asking for some of the details and never received a response. Twice. Separation of church and state?
Roy Crock of McDonald's must have gotten his idea for McDonald's from the pope.
My idea on housing the homeless is anything but farfetched. Except in the eyes of Christians. So merry Christmas to all but the poor.
According to the Book of Revelation in the New Testament, Armageddon is the prophesied location of a gathering of armies for a battle during the end times. Most theologians nowadays say that it should be interpreted as a symbolic location.
Revelation has a wide variety of interpretations, ranging from a historical interpretation, to a prophetic view on what will happen in the future by way of God's will, to different end time scenarios, and to the views of modern theologians who deny any spiritual value to Revelation at all.
Carl Gustav Jung whose work was influential in the fields of psychiatry, anthropology, archaeology, literature, philosophy, psychology and religious studies said in his autobiography Memories Dream Reflections... "I will not discuss the transparent prophecies of the Book of Revelation because no one believes in them and the whole subject is felt to be an embarrassing one."
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There is very little, if any, reason to believe Armageddon is coming Ray.
If truth be known Homo Sapiens have evolved over time, and all species over the aeons of Time too arising from the slime and muck!!! Study Biology-- since the beginning of time., natural processes, natural selection, w/o the need of a "supreme being" (take your pick) guiding it, but I know it gives some comfort to believe this though....!
I met a Mormon woman who told me how blessed by God and Jesus she was when she fell asleep driving home and totalled her car because she didn't get hurt. I've always thought being blessed would have been if they just kept her awake. But I also got thrown out of vacation bible school at 5 because I asked too many inconvenient questions. So there you go. I just don't get it.
Personal experiences are interesting, but the reason they don't really count as an observation is because anybody can claim they've had such an experience. These revelations are unprovable.
Testimony is not a reliable source for claims that cannot be independently observed. Personal experiences are subjective and, as such, cannot be directly shared, only anecdotally shared. One popular form of the argument is from near-death experiences.
And how can you prove the good Samaritan with jumper cables was actually summoned by your God? You can't Ray!
Many people from other religions experience "revelations" too, yet they don't all experience the Christian "God". If personal revelation in the case of Christianity is to be believed then one must also believe the Muslim when they say they've had personal revelation of Allah.
Apologists argue that God wants people to believe by faith. Which then raises the question of how they can also believe anyone who has experienced with a God which is a contradiction to their beliefs.
Hitchens’ Razor, - what can be asserted without evidence, can also be dismissed without evidence.
One of the most valuable aspects of watching Matt, is that he expose's all the ‘tricks’ religious apologists rely on it. "Special Pleading" for instance. They’re very difficult to spot while they’re occurring, or even after the fact, for me at least. But having Matt spell them out like this makes them easy to spot .
If it is true that Jesus rose from the dead - why hasn't he shown up in 2,000-years? If God created the Universe and can turn snakes into talking snakes, it would be trivial for him to let a few of us see Jesus eh!
There is no profit to be had, and no grift to be had, in housing the homeless. Therefore the federal and most of the state governments will do nothing since they are controlled by capitalists who insist on profiting from everything those governments do. Only a real revolution will change that.
Ironically, considering the common narratives, the exception is found in Utah. Not only did the Latter Day Saints figure out it cost less to simply house the homeless than it did to jail them or treat them in emergency rooms, it was what they thought Jesus wanted them to do.
I respect those Mormon Republicans for doing that, and for walking the walk. The fact that I'm a pagan anarcho-Marxist is irrelevant. It was just the right thing to do.
Christopher Hitchens: Religious Charity is Just Proselytizing
During a debate with Rabbi David J. Wolpe, Hitchens refutes the notion that God is proven through demonstrations of faith through acts of charity. He calls much of religious charity nothing more than wicked profiteering for religious organizations.
And BTW Bill and Ray, how much of what Jesus is supposed of said is what he said - and how much of it is just Paul being a dishonest salesman for his cult?
Discuss. Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin!
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EDIT: And with respect to the circumstances of Israel's deliberate indiscriminate bombing of Gaza, making 60% of the population HOMELESS to force them out. Which is pure evil:
If God is willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
If he is able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
If he is both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
If he is neither able nor willing? Then why call him a "God?”
Hi Dennis: I'm not a theologian, but I'd guess that God is "able and willing" to prevent evil, but he chooses not to, allowing his creations to sin as they wish.
For the sinners, of course, there's supposed to be punishment awaiting them in the afterlife. And for the redeemed, there are supposedly eternal rewards.
This is all based on faith, your favorite form of "fact"! :-)
Heaven is a mythical construct of cultists Bill. It does not exist.
And your first two sentences are claims - guesses as you rightly say! And favourites of apologists.
Your third sentence - are you claiming that I believe in things based on faith?
I do not. I believe in things based on evidence and am willing to change my mind when new evidence is produced. Something theists are not willing to do.
An atheist reads many books and knows he must learn more. While a theist partly reads one very old book written by unknown authors and has been edited hundreds of times, and there is many versions of, and thinks he knows everything!
"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."-- Mark Twain
The Heaven of those weak minded Theologians to me anyway sure sounds, or is very dull and boring... I'll take Heaven for the climate, but I'd much prefer Hell for the Company thank you very much!!!
Man is a marvelous curiosity... he thinks he is the Creator's pet... he even believes the Creator loves him, has passion for him, sits up nites to admire him, yes and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to him and thinks he listens.... Isn't it a quaint idea." -- Mark Twain
I believe mankinds cruelty to one another not serpents, apples trees of knowlege, shame of nudity, sex-- in a "Garden of Eden" is our true real original sin. That's what mankind has to really atone for!!!
I'll take Kubrick and Clark's 2001 monolith over the apple tree. The ape tries to take a bite out of it and given the knowledge of picking up a human bone and clubbing another ape to death with it. The monolith was the tree of knowledge. The entire opening sequence was the old testament.
All I see is a lot of sanctimonious b.s. here which is why in the Rules and Regulations of the Fire Dept. where I toiled for 2 Decades Religion was never discussed let alone allowed, and we were the better off for it. Talk is cheap. Fighting fires and saving lives here as well. If I ever get to Heaven believe you me brother-- God, be it spirit, man, or woman whatever form, or entity will have a lot of explaining and answering for after all I've seen. No need to reply RJC...
In Modern Monetary Theory (MMT), the economists who teach it say that it's only a matter of political will that more is not being done for the people of the United States.
The only time you hear politicians ask, "How're you going to pay for it?" is when the people ask for something for themselves, like health care or housing.
When Congress passed the Covid Relief Bill, which was the biggest upward transfer of wealth in human history, no one asked how they were going to pay for it. When Congress votes for billions of dollars for wars around the world, they don't ask how they're going to pay for it.
Those of us who look at the US monetary system through the lens of MMT are armed against the lies that the government uses on people who don't know what they do. We invite you to join us.
In Minnesota, where I live, the state laws about incorporating specifically state that non-profit corporations are forbidden from lobbying. The obvious implication is that only for-profit corporations can lobby.
Ray my friend, as long as you continue to flood these comment threads with proselytizing for your God, I will continue to provide counterarguments debunking a lot of it.
You have to grant me that. What gives religion a free pass from debate and criticism?
The American theoretical physicist and cosmologist Lawrence Krauss said, "Christopher was a beacon of knowledge and light in a world that constantly threatens to extinguish both. He had the courage to accept the world for just what it is and not what he wanted it to be. That's the highest praise one can give to any intellect. He understood that the universe doesn't care about our existence or welfare, and he epitomized the realization that our lives have meaning only to the extent that we give them meaning."
Christopher engaged with the argument, he debated, he reasoned, he discussed. Never claiming to be superior.
Religious people who feel morally just and superior don't do these things, at best they simply declare they are morally superior, at worst they will kill you for disagreeing.
I attend Mass regularly (w/ my Wife mostly for the music and the very rare good words)-- though I am a non believer. My Priest a Rookie in his first assignment as a Pastor. He has no humanity, humor, while he preaches other than his book learning and word power doesn't know shit from clay! Sorry my Sunday Rant! I am a Saganist as I think most on this Blog know me, but occasionally or regularly I will attend a occasional Mass. I love how they can tell you how to live your life as if they are some kind of ordained visionary speakers, philosophers, and some not all are even sexual deviants hiding behind their clerical garb, and haven't a clue...! Carl left us too soon Dec.20th. 1996.
I certainly don't "worship" Hitchens as an authority.
I just have the same simple believe that he had - "there is no evidence to prove there is a "God"." That's it! He claimed no authority.
And if you watch any of his videos - he always debunked a believe in "Gods" in his debates, and was NEVER defeated in any of these debates by the very best religious apologists! Have you ever watched any?
I will - when you get me pictures of a living Jesus helping the homeless in LA.
BTW, anybody can be an authority on atheism. All atheists say is there is no evidence for a "God". It's very simple. One does not have to be a Betrand Russell to be an atheist, Bill.
Instead of housing the unhoused, America with its bombs and missiles is unhousing (and killing) tens of thousands of innocents in the land -- Palestine -- where Jesus walked. That's a fine legacy as we approach Christmas.
America is a Christian nation? Yeah, and the moon is made of Swiss cheese. It's all a charade, since the US National Security State doesn't give a damn about anything else, including homelessness in this country, except promoting the global hegemonic project. Full stop. As for the homelessness problem, you can thank the gangster capitalist system which has allowed the likes of Blackstone and other private equity firms who have bought hundreds of thousands of homes and jacked up rent prices to gouge the working people of this country. But it's all legal under our glorious "rules-based order."
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/21/how-wall-street-bought-single-family-homes-and-put-them-up-for-rent.html
There is a great Scene in a Clint Eastwood Western where some Townfolk are displaced from the only Hotel in Town Rented Rooms due to Fire when Clint shames the Local Padre' Minister who is corrupt as the day is long to put up the Homeless in his Church now of course the "Holy Man" complies reluctantly, but the kicker-- this corrupt fucker won't Charge these poor Folk one more Dime than the Hotel was!!! lmao
There's a sometimes-used retort, "This is why we can't have nice things". For me, it is most applicable to the Imperium's commitment to buying, using and deploying weaponry in the course of provoking, starting and perpetuating wars around the globe. That obscene spending isn't even questioned by more than a very few among Congress; in fact we've seen too often how Congress will inflate the President's request. And as is frequently noted, there is near perfect bipartisanship.
That's a major reason why we can't have 'nice' things like adequate shelter , health care, education, or even safe bridges, lead-free water, or adequate funding for national parks, etc. it's part of the bigger reason- the sacred elephant in the room- rapacious capitalism whose adherents have captured the supposed 'democracy' and replaced it with something far less democratic. The interests of Wall Street, and private capital generally, are the ones furthered in war. And it is their representatives who take control over housing in many places (e.g. take a look at Blackrock's holdings); who speculate and buy up control over water, who push the ;military conflicts with Russia, China, Iran, Venezuela and many other states which dared stake out an independent future for the benefit of their citizens.
At the local level, such as mine, City Councils - even those dominated by Democrats- talk a lot about 'affordable housing'. It's the most frequently used phrase during their deliberations. Yet they refuse to do what is necessary to address the problem, because The People Who Really Matter (TPWRM) or matter most to them are their patrons in the Real Estate sector- the speculators, 'investors', developers, mortgage lenders, etc. - and all they want is further deregulation, and if possible, a few more subsidies to their already considerable profits.
i know this because i served on a municipal Affordable Housing Commission for 3 years;, providing a close-up and in-depth look at the nature of the problems and the tools used to address it;; and our consensus recommendation was rejected out of hand because of developer pressure on the bought Council.
We could have nice things. But it's not likely with the political system we've all inherited. As long as $$ controls both elections and policies- expect no more than platitudes and crumbs of cake.
Good rant. Bill. Linking it today @https://nothingnewunderthesun2016.com/
I enjoy the thoughtful debates that Christopher Hitchens gave us throughout his lifetime. We are very fortunate to have these videos to appreciate the strength and ultimate capabilities of the human mind.
Christopher Hitchens vs. Rabbi David Wolpe: The Great God Debate.
Probably the best debate on this subject in front of an American audience in modern times.
Wolpe, was lucid, sharp, educated, funny and kind. Hitchens still obliterated him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kZRAOXEFPI
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"Hold on. Hitchens talked disrespect to God.
Then got THROAT Cancer?
Whoa'.........
Then how do you explain cancer cases among devoted Christians then? Does "God" just decide to give them cancer too, for kicks? Hitchens was a heavy smoker. There's no mystery over how he got cancer. It happens just as often to religious people, which suggests - along with the complete inefficacy of prayer - that there is no higher power.
'I will pray for you' Is literally as good as doing absolutely nothing at all. One could have just as well said 'I'll bring you cookies.'
"But who prays for Satan? Who, in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most?"-- Mark Twain
"I am quite sure that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's."-- Mark Twain
"We despise all reverences and all objects of reverence which are outside the pale of our list of sacred things. And, yet, with strange inconsistency, we are shocked when other people despise and defile the things which are holy to us."-- Mark Twain
The rolling stones??
Happy Birthday "Keef" 80 yrs. young Octogenarian status!!!
"A man of wealth and taste"
I know some fundamentalist Christians who say all the rock stars have sold out to the devil. Lucifer seems to give long life, riches and fame while God demands poverty suffering and the hope of eternal bliss later on. What Corp does God represent?
"Christianity - the belief that God sacrificed God to God to save God's creations from God." LMAO
Can you bring me those cookies before the infinite loving God (take your pick) turns us all into cinders with armegeddon? Chocolate chip please. I guess burnt is better than soggy with a flood. Better Fed ex them over night.
We'll have God, or a Fed Ex Driver dressed as Santa "Old St. Nick" Claus deliver them Cookies...lol
Didn't you hear? Santa upgraded his sleigh to a nuclear capable stealth version. I'm sure I'll miss him. It's all on my latest post "A White House Christmas "
By the way keep the Twain quotes coming. I can't stop laughing.
"If there is a God, he is a malign Thug." -- Mark Twain
Ray, come on man!
"The God and Father of Jesus Christ the Jew, is ALL Good, a Peace Maker, a Healer of the inside of Humans, and a forgiver of SINS for those who sincerely repent..blah..blah...blah.... is only a CLAIM! Without evidence!
How do we know what Gods intentions were? More, to the point, how do we even know this "God" existed.
And don't get us started on how wars your "Peace Maker" started in the Bible! War is mentioned over 400-times in the Bible. God allowed war to protect and bring glory to himself......dare I go on!
Together they will be like warriors in battle trampling their enemy into the mud of the streets. They will fight because the LORD is with them, and they will put the enemy horsemen to shame. - Zechariah 10:5
I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. -Zechariah 14:2
Maybe Netanyahu has been reading the Bible too much lately eh!
Some practical suggestions for homelessness.
Estimates are that there are 500 thousand homeless in the US. If all the churches opened their doors to house them it would be more than sufficient to accommodate them all. Most churches have kitchens and bathrooms and could establish sleeping facilities with a little creativity. Food could be provided free from all the wasted food from supermarkets and restaurants. A minister would be there for guidance and oversight. There are more than enough churches in the country to make this possible. So as a suggestion, why don't you get this underway? It's the Christian thing to do.
As far as Armegeddon is concerned I thought that the Book Of Revelations said it was imminent. The rapture is going to save the believers from the suffering of the impending catastrophe. At least that's what I have been told by all the fundamentalist Christians I've known. The Bible is after all the incontrovertible word of God.
"The meek shall inherit the earth"?
"The last shall be first"?
"Do unto others......"?
"Thou shalt not kill"?
I personally believe that if the Bible were done as the old Readers Digest condensed version and condensed to the ten commandments things would be a lot clearer and better for all. It would avoid a lot of confusion.
I remember Pat Robertson saying "Christians deserve all the money." And also "We should nuke Venezuela" when they offered to help the victims of hurricane Katrina.
Then of course there was Jim Bakker and his lovely wife Tammy with her tears ruining her makeup. Probably thinking about her devout husband in a threesome raping a college student. Tammy it seems was too "loose" for Jim's liking. "Send your social security check and we'll pray for you!"
And let's not forget Hal Lindsey and the Late Great Planet Earth . It's all in there.
My ex wife was born again several times. Probably several times more after the divorce. So I've heard and seen it all . After 40 years to get over the ex I just find it humourous now.
Don't forget that Louisiana Rattlesnake Jimmy "I have Sinned!!!" Swaggart Brother Swaggart with the Pro. in his Jogging Suit!
How about "Where's that alter boy! I feel the need!"
Armageddon outa here...:/ :o)
If you’re looking at the Catholic Church alone, “God” has at least — and we’re putting a huge emphasis on “at least” - $73-billion, with a "B", in assets.
Make that $73,000,000,000.00.
The Catholic Church has vast assets, including billions in real estate and priceless art, not to mention the Vatican Bank. But its finances are largely secret. Tallying that immense wealth is impossible, according to experts.
The New York Times noted the church is a developer, with a real estate arm that “controls leases and office space rentals in the buildings it owns.”
https://www.marketplace.org/2023/02/10/how-much-money-does-catholic-church-have/
In the US, Toma, if the Catholic Church was taxed, that would pay for eliminating homeless ten times over!
As for the Ten Commandments:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE8ooMBIyC8
This was Carlins 12th HBO Special taped live from the Beacon Theater in New York City, just 10 weeks after the tragic events of 9/11.
Well here's something else to think about. Hawaii just received $32 million from the federal government for homelessness. Senator Schotz gave 8 million to a Catholic charity who used it to purchase a building with property and intend to house 18 yes eighteen homeless people in it in a year or two. I wrote them a polite email asking for some of the details and never received a response. Twice. Separation of church and state?
Roy Crock of McDonald's must have gotten his idea for McDonald's from the pope.
My idea on housing the homeless is anything but farfetched. Except in the eyes of Christians. So merry Christmas to all but the poor.
And thanks for starting the lively conversation!
According to the Book of Revelation in the New Testament, Armageddon is the prophesied location of a gathering of armies for a battle during the end times. Most theologians nowadays say that it should be interpreted as a symbolic location.
Revelation has a wide variety of interpretations, ranging from a historical interpretation, to a prophetic view on what will happen in the future by way of God's will, to different end time scenarios, and to the views of modern theologians who deny any spiritual value to Revelation at all.
Carl Gustav Jung whose work was influential in the fields of psychiatry, anthropology, archaeology, literature, philosophy, psychology and religious studies said in his autobiography Memories Dream Reflections... "I will not discuss the transparent prophecies of the Book of Revelation because no one believes in them and the whole subject is felt to be an embarrassing one."
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There is very little, if any, reason to believe Armageddon is coming Ray.
Give us a few examples of "heavenly Facts" please.
Isn't a fact true or false - irrespective of what it is addressing?
Even if a "God" claimed it - it can still be true or false eh?
Help me with that.
Take care
If truth be known Homo Sapiens have evolved over time, and all species over the aeons of Time too arising from the slime and muck!!! Study Biology-- since the beginning of time., natural processes, natural selection, w/o the need of a "supreme being" (take your pick) guiding it, but I know it gives some comfort to believe this though....!
I met a Mormon woman who told me how blessed by God and Jesus she was when she fell asleep driving home and totalled her car because she didn't get hurt. I've always thought being blessed would have been if they just kept her awake. But I also got thrown out of vacation bible school at 5 because I asked too many inconvenient questions. So there you go. I just don't get it.
"Sacred cows make the best hamburger."-- Mark Twain
I don't believe in God and I am frequently amazed at how much I owe to the kindness of total strangers.
You are pulling our leg eh Ray!!
Personal experiences are interesting, but the reason they don't really count as an observation is because anybody can claim they've had such an experience. These revelations are unprovable.
Testimony is not a reliable source for claims that cannot be independently observed. Personal experiences are subjective and, as such, cannot be directly shared, only anecdotally shared. One popular form of the argument is from near-death experiences.
And how can you prove the good Samaritan with jumper cables was actually summoned by your God? You can't Ray!
Many people from other religions experience "revelations" too, yet they don't all experience the Christian "God". If personal revelation in the case of Christianity is to be believed then one must also believe the Muslim when they say they've had personal revelation of Allah.
Apologists argue that God wants people to believe by faith. Which then raises the question of how they can also believe anyone who has experienced with a God which is a contradiction to their beliefs.
Hitchens’ Razor, - what can be asserted without evidence, can also be dismissed without evidence.
"According to the Record, the Resurrected Christ appeared..........."...OK!
Atheist Debates: Is Belief in the Resurrection Reasonable?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHY6tqdi8pY
Its only 22:53 long Ray.
One of the most valuable aspects of watching Matt, is that he expose's all the ‘tricks’ religious apologists rely on it. "Special Pleading" for instance. They’re very difficult to spot while they’re occurring, or even after the fact, for me at least. But having Matt spell them out like this makes them easy to spot .
If it is true that Jesus rose from the dead - why hasn't he shown up in 2,000-years? If God created the Universe and can turn snakes into talking snakes, it would be trivial for him to let a few of us see Jesus eh!
"Christ is Resurrected in me Dennis"
Huh? What does that mean Ray?
Way above my paygrade I guess!
There is no profit to be had, and no grift to be had, in housing the homeless. Therefore the federal and most of the state governments will do nothing since they are controlled by capitalists who insist on profiting from everything those governments do. Only a real revolution will change that.
Ironically, considering the common narratives, the exception is found in Utah. Not only did the Latter Day Saints figure out it cost less to simply house the homeless than it did to jail them or treat them in emergency rooms, it was what they thought Jesus wanted them to do.
I respect those Mormon Republicans for doing that, and for walking the walk. The fact that I'm a pagan anarcho-Marxist is irrelevant. It was just the right thing to do.
Christopher Hitchens: Religious Charity is Just Proselytizing
During a debate with Rabbi David J. Wolpe, Hitchens refutes the notion that God is proven through demonstrations of faith through acts of charity. He calls much of religious charity nothing more than wicked profiteering for religious organizations.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzneGDAHLBQ&t=4s
And BTW Bill and Ray, how much of what Jesus is supposed of said is what he said - and how much of it is just Paul being a dishonest salesman for his cult?
Discuss. Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin!
-
EDIT: And with respect to the circumstances of Israel's deliberate indiscriminate bombing of Gaza, making 60% of the population HOMELESS to force them out. Which is pure evil:
If God is willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
If he is able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
If he is both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
If he is neither able nor willing? Then why call him a "God?”
Hi Dennis: I'm not a theologian, but I'd guess that God is "able and willing" to prevent evil, but he chooses not to, allowing his creations to sin as they wish.
For the sinners, of course, there's supposed to be punishment awaiting them in the afterlife. And for the redeemed, there are supposedly eternal rewards.
This is all based on faith, your favorite form of "fact"! :-)
My question: Is Christopher Hitchens in heaven?
Heaven is a mythical construct of cultists Bill. It does not exist.
And your first two sentences are claims - guesses as you rightly say! And favourites of apologists.
Your third sentence - are you claiming that I believe in things based on faith?
I do not. I believe in things based on evidence and am willing to change my mind when new evidence is produced. Something theists are not willing to do.
An atheist reads many books and knows he must learn more. While a theist partly reads one very old book written by unknown authors and has been edited hundreds of times, and there is many versions of, and thinks he knows everything!
"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."-- Mark Twain
"The Bible has noble poetry in it..., and some good morals and a wealth of obscenity, and upwards of a thousand lies."-- Mark Twain
He is "able and willing" but he chooses not to? Not very willing, then, is he? He just watches his creation f*ck up as they wish.
And passes the popcorn, I suppose.
The Heaven of those weak minded Theologians to me anyway sure sounds, or is very dull and boring... I'll take Heaven for the climate, but I'd much prefer Hell for the Company thank you very much!!!
Man is a marvelous curiosity... he thinks he is the Creator's pet... he even believes the Creator loves him, has passion for him, sits up nites to admire him, yes and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to him and thinks he listens.... Isn't it a quaint idea." -- Mark Twain
It's interesting that Jesus had no trouble resisting temptation. Adam and Eve, on the other hand, were easily beguiled by a snake.
As a result, sin came into the world, which completely ruined God's divine plan.
If only Adam and Eve had been given the same strength of character as Jesus eh?
LMAO
The whole concept of "sin" in the Bible is ridiculous. I don't buy this nonsense about babies being born sinners. Insidious indoctrination.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly38wEyojLw
I believe mankinds cruelty to one another not serpents, apples trees of knowlege, shame of nudity, sex-- in a "Garden of Eden" is our true real original sin. That's what mankind has to really atone for!!!
I'll take Kubrick and Clark's 2001 monolith over the apple tree. The ape tries to take a bite out of it and given the knowledge of picking up a human bone and clubbing another ape to death with it. The monolith was the tree of knowledge. The entire opening sequence was the old testament.
All I see is a lot of sanctimonious b.s. here which is why in the Rules and Regulations of the Fire Dept. where I toiled for 2 Decades Religion was never discussed let alone allowed, and we were the better off for it. Talk is cheap. Fighting fires and saving lives here as well. If I ever get to Heaven believe you me brother-- God, be it spirit, man, or woman whatever form, or entity will have a lot of explaining and answering for after all I've seen. No need to reply RJC...
You are wearing me out Ray.
My two doctor daughters were formed and reformed by the wisdom of their Godless parents.
And everyday are healing and saving lives.
Pray for the conversion of USA
In Modern Monetary Theory (MMT), the economists who teach it say that it's only a matter of political will that more is not being done for the people of the United States.
The only time you hear politicians ask, "How're you going to pay for it?" is when the people ask for something for themselves, like health care or housing.
When Congress passed the Covid Relief Bill, which was the biggest upward transfer of wealth in human history, no one asked how they were going to pay for it. When Congress votes for billions of dollars for wars around the world, they don't ask how they're going to pay for it.
Those of us who look at the US monetary system through the lens of MMT are armed against the lies that the government uses on people who don't know what they do. We invite you to join us.
In Minnesota, where I live, the state laws about incorporating specifically state that non-profit corporations are forbidden from lobbying. The obvious implication is that only for-profit corporations can lobby.
Ray my friend, as long as you continue to flood these comment threads with proselytizing for your God, I will continue to provide counterarguments debunking a lot of it.
You have to grant me that. What gives religion a free pass from debate and criticism?
Take care.
Ah, the irony of Christ/opher Hitchens as an authority on atheism. Christopher means "bearer of Christ"!
The American theoretical physicist and cosmologist Lawrence Krauss said, "Christopher was a beacon of knowledge and light in a world that constantly threatens to extinguish both. He had the courage to accept the world for just what it is and not what he wanted it to be. That's the highest praise one can give to any intellect. He understood that the universe doesn't care about our existence or welfare, and he epitomized the realization that our lives have meaning only to the extent that we give them meaning."
Christopher engaged with the argument, he debated, he reasoned, he discussed. Never claiming to be superior.
Religious people who feel morally just and superior don't do these things, at best they simply declare they are morally superior, at worst they will kill you for disagreeing.
I attend Mass regularly (w/ my Wife mostly for the music and the very rare good words)-- though I am a non believer. My Priest a Rookie in his first assignment as a Pastor. He has no humanity, humor, while he preaches other than his book learning and word power doesn't know shit from clay! Sorry my Sunday Rant! I am a Saganist as I think most on this Blog know me, but occasionally or regularly I will attend a occasional Mass. I love how they can tell you how to live your life as if they are some kind of ordained visionary speakers, philosophers, and some not all are even sexual deviants hiding behind their clerical garb, and haven't a clue...! Carl left us too soon Dec.20th. 1996.
I certainly don't "worship" Hitchens as an authority.
I just have the same simple believe that he had - "there is no evidence to prove there is a "God"." That's it! He claimed no authority.
And if you watch any of his videos - he always debunked a believe in "Gods" in his debates, and was NEVER defeated in any of these debates by the very best religious apologists! Have you ever watched any?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kZRAOXEFPI
And "faith" is just believing things without evidence.
I have faith that fairies live in the bottom of my garden. And I have as much evidence for that as you have for Christ Jesus.
Can you get pictures of those fairies for me, Dennis? I'm not sure I believe in them.
I will - when you get me pictures of a living Jesus helping the homeless in LA.
BTW, anybody can be an authority on atheism. All atheists say is there is no evidence for a "God". It's very simple. One does not have to be a Betrand Russell to be an atheist, Bill.
https://iep.utm.edu/atheism/