Unfortunately, Bill, the likely outcome from this turmoil is a prolonged war and an increase in the possibility of it going nuclear. You can be sure that the neocon cabal of Blinken/Sullivan/Nuland/Austin/Biden have been salivating these past 48 hours. They surely feel that their goal of regime change is now in sight. So, we should expect even more doubling down, massive weapons transfers, etc., along with more carnage, tragically. The game of nuclear chicken will carry on. The proxy war against Russia unleashed by the neocon cabal will likely keep going for the foreseeable future no matter the risk, until the last Ukrainian.
I think the Prigozhin escapade has proved a tidy way for the Kremlin to finally separately him from Wagner. Putin's cool head in the matter brought a swift conclusion to a crisis situation in which the West characteristically got all giddy about the inevitable fall of Putin and Russia. Instead, Prigozhin found zero support and Putin well supported once again. The West will carry on for weeks (months?) with headlines of the inevitable Putin fall just as they have carried on for months about Ukraine winning the war. Both are illusory.
Prigozhin's complaint wasn't with Putin. It was with Shoigu, which is why he took his troops to Rostov-on-Don rather than Moscow. This was only a coup attempt in the minds of the anti-Putin Western news media.
Alex, I like this comment from a British commenter on the linked Alexander Mercouris, of "The Duran", YouTube video. Alexander is always the Gold Standard of the truth.
"Watching UK fake news media convulsing in their own saliva over this was entertaining, but not as meaningful as dialogue in porn movies. Porn still produces more intelligent dialogue than UK mainstream media."
But depressingly, all these reliable sources, who have always been correct with their predictions, universally agree that this will surely embolden Blinken/Sullivan/Nuland/Austin/Biden/Sunak et al to double down and escalate the conflict. More weapons and Nato involvement.
And all agree that the US intelligence knew about it weeks before (?)
Speaking of believing anything that anybody has to say about the recent events in Russia… :
THE REAL CASUALTIES OF RUSSIA’S ‘CIVIL WAR’: THE BELTWAY EXPERT CLASS by Max Blumenthal and Wyatt Reed· 062623
Numerous serious casualties were incurred during Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin’s supposed “coup.” The Grayzone offers an in-depth look at the massacre carried out by some of America’s top Russia experts against their own credibility.
When Wagner Group leader Yevgeny Prigozhin launched a supposed revolt against Russian President Vladimir Putin on June 23, sending his forces on a march toward Moscow following a series of tirades against the country’s defense establishment, Washington’s expert class overflowed with an orgy of regime change fantasies.
For just over 12 hours, everyone from former US ambassador to Russia and noted Hitler apologist Michael McFaul to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to neocon pundit Anne Applebaum exploded with seemingly libidinal excitement about a supposed “civil war” that was certain to feature “Russians…killing Russians,” along with “lots of casualties” and Putin “probably hiding somewhere.”
It was as though the Soviet Union was collapsing all over again, and Prigozhin, a character named on the FBI’s most wanted list whom the US government has sanctioned for leading what it described as a “transnational criminal organization,” was suddenly a white knight storming into Moscow to liberate Russia from “the Putin regime” on the back of a tank. Move over, Juan Guaido.
Expecting a bloodbath and seismic political upheaval, corporate networks like CNN had budgeted wall-to-wall coverage of the coup that wasn’t, filling cable news green rooms with rent-a-generals, K Street think tankers, and war-hungry former diplomatic corps hacks.
On the afternoon of June 24, however, news broke across the US that Prigozhin had struck a deal with Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko to end his protest and go into exile. Thus ended a largely bloodless affair that ultimately saw fewer documented deaths than the January 6 Capitol Riot.
Peace is not to be given a chance because there is more Power [the ability to force other Human Beings to do what You want them to do regardless of what they want to do] and Wealth [the ability to buy and sell Power for a profit] to be gained with, from, and by War.
I like the statement from TomG. No, Putin is not losing his calm and reasonable control of the situation. If anything, this "Prigozhin escapade" has solidified the support behind him, even from his many serious critics. There are a few elements—apparently not very many—who are not merely critical, but treacherous. They'll be rooted out. As for Prigozhin and the traitorous soldiers in the Wagner Group (seemingly no officers were included—but we'll see), they'll not be forgiven by the Army, so I don't predict a bright future for them. Putin made a bad mistake in trusting Prigozhin—they have a long history together, not entirely smooth. According to some sources, Prigozhin served 10 years for armed robbery, and that wasn't his only sentence. I think that Prigozhin had been bought by the Ukrainian security forces, with American money, for this charade, which Putin didn't antecedently believe would happen. I think that Zelensky is simply in it for the money as well. He's willing to sacrifice Ukrainian men—and Ukraine itself—for cash. He probably recognized a kindred traitor in Prigozhin, which Putin did not. It seems to me that there was a scheme (aided and abetted by . . . MI-6 perhaps?) to coordinate the Prigozhin escapade with the famous Ukrainian counter-offensive in the belief that that would cause the Russian governmental apparatus to fall into disorder and allow Putin's enemies to undermine his authority and control and might also disorganize the Russian defenses in the south. Speculation, of course; but if it's anything close to right, it completely backfired. Putin was blindsided, but you can be sure that it won't happen again. The folks who will be taken in by the Western agitprop, now in full swing, are only those who are already taken in. Even the American public seems to be waking up. I'm with you in your conclusion, Mr. Astore.
in russia exist a tiny west facing intelligentsia, a us connected fifth column of atlanticists and fellow travelers. many with relations in usa!
the us' take of their power in russia is based on these and the us inflated their influence in russia much as they did in the fifth columns in korea, vietnam, iran, iraq libya....
They are not as unaware and dumb as we boomers like to portray them.
These kids comments show they are not fooled: "Oligarchs and their toys! USA better listen up. How much did this cost the CIA again? You call that an insurrection? A few lousy tanks and some "comrades" singing at a sidewalk cafe? I don't think we got our money's worth on this one." LOL
The fact is this bought-and-paid-for CIA "coup" was way over-hyped.
Coincidence that it came right after the Pentagon "found" $6.2-billion?
And the exaggeration by the gloating gleeful MSM medium vomit inducing.
I swear "This is the end of the Orange Man" and "This is the end of Putin" we must have heard a hundred times from these CIA schooled talking heads! It's as if they are all reading the same notes the CIA handed them!
To use an American expression - this coup was a huge nothing burger!
Putin is not going anywhere. There is not going to be a Russian Civil War.
From Your preface, Dennis ~ that "I'm really impressed by the young kids sometimes... These kids comments show they are not fooled:..."; i was wondering which specific point in the almost 3-hour video You were specifically referring to.
Heh. Well, Dennis - to use the term "taking" in a different way - i'm sorry You apparently take my question as some sort of "insult." So it goes, eh? Have a Great day.
This antipodean's take after listening to Col Douglas Macgregor, and Scott Ritter.
Prigozhin has been making outrageous statements and does not accept his part in the chain of command. For that reason, they think the Wagner group needs to be integrated into the regular Russian army. It is essential that Putin does this.
Prigozhin, a convicted criminal who spent 10-years in jail, and has made they say>€100-million during the conflict, and is not a military man, opposes the idea and made a theatrical attempt at getting his own way. Not one senior officer in Wagner joined his protest and no shots were fired. The Russian people showed a lot of love for the soldiers, and also think Putin is a great leader who handled the situation with great skill.
But it has sadly damaged Russia in the Western World's eyes. And emboldened Western warmongers.
Putin has to get tough, stop trying to save what's left of Ukraine due to the crazed aspirations of a Neo-Nazi US puppet comedian, and unleash his superb and powerful military to end this war that's already over. And with Xi's help maybe, get sensible leaders in Ukrainian to accept the peace agreement they already signed in April 2022. And show these neocon fools in Washington that they need to back off and rethink their hegemonic goals.
Like i asked yesterday: On what basis should anybody believe anything that anybody in Moscow says about anything any more than that they should believe anything that anybody in Kyiv or DC says about anything?
Or what Anybody else says about Anything, no matter Where they are? Especially when it comes to the "coup" in Russia.
Kyiv’s Wagner Warning, Kherson Hit With 500 Kg Bomb, Putin “Stays Up Till 3 AM”
Was this all just a ploy all along?
Former British General Lord Richard Dannatt has warned that the Wagner Group may lead an attack on Kyiv from Belarus. Russian President Putin says he keeps track of his ‘special operation’ around the clock.
Care to let anybody know, Dennis, exactly Who [and/or What] ]this "CRUX" is that is the source of this infotainment? And Who owns, operates, and controls it?
Until You linked it to that video, Dennis, i had never heard of "CRUX."
That's why i asked my questions to one who apparently can answer it, and who also apparently trusts it as a "reliable source." Otherwise, why would he have posted that link?
As i have explained to You at least once, if not twice before, Dennis: i don't watch videos~ even from my followed sources of news, views, information, and bullshit ~ that do not have available transcripts.
i can read the transcript of a one-hour video in five minutes, and determine whether or not watching the entire video [or specific parts of it] is worth my time.
Unfortunately, Bill, the likely outcome from this turmoil is a prolonged war and an increase in the possibility of it going nuclear. You can be sure that the neocon cabal of Blinken/Sullivan/Nuland/Austin/Biden have been salivating these past 48 hours. They surely feel that their goal of regime change is now in sight. So, we should expect even more doubling down, massive weapons transfers, etc., along with more carnage, tragically. The game of nuclear chicken will carry on. The proxy war against Russia unleashed by the neocon cabal will likely keep going for the foreseeable future no matter the risk, until the last Ukrainian.
I fear you're right, Charlie.
I think the Prigozhin escapade has proved a tidy way for the Kremlin to finally separately him from Wagner. Putin's cool head in the matter brought a swift conclusion to a crisis situation in which the West characteristically got all giddy about the inevitable fall of Putin and Russia. Instead, Prigozhin found zero support and Putin well supported once again. The West will carry on for weeks (months?) with headlines of the inevitable Putin fall just as they have carried on for months about Ukraine winning the war. Both are illusory.
Prigozhin's complaint wasn't with Putin. It was with Shoigu, which is why he took his troops to Rostov-on-Don rather than Moscow. This was only a coup attempt in the minds of the anti-Putin Western news media.
Alex, I like this comment from a British commenter on the linked Alexander Mercouris, of "The Duran", YouTube video. Alexander is always the Gold Standard of the truth.
"Watching UK fake news media convulsing in their own saliva over this was entertaining, but not as meaningful as dialogue in porn movies. Porn still produces more intelligent dialogue than UK mainstream media."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx7pGxlarHA
This from National Review, a thoroughly hawkish publication: "Brutal Maniac Fails to Depose Other Brutal Maniac."
Alex, The great George Galloway always is wonderful.
And he gets Col Douglas Macgregor on - formidable man.
BTW, the Col does not think this involved MI-6 or the CIA
RIDE OF THE VALKYRIES | MOATS with George Galloway Ep 250
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72PSUpD4rmk
And of course, Alex Christoforou always gets it 100% right.
Lavrov = No bullshit, straight talking and intelligent arguments. A proper statesman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0emcxlIvkDI
But depressingly, all these reliable sources, who have always been correct with their predictions, universally agree that this will surely embolden Blinken/Sullivan/Nuland/Austin/Biden/Sunak et al to double down and escalate the conflict. More weapons and Nato involvement.
And all agree that the US intelligence knew about it weeks before (?)
Clayton Morris at redacted summarizes it very well also
BREAKING: Putin just dropped a BOMBSHELL & outplayed the Western coup | Redacted w Clayton Morris
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go0hQ2nvmP4
Great Take!
Thanks, George!
Speaking of believing anything that anybody has to say about the recent events in Russia… :
THE REAL CASUALTIES OF RUSSIA’S ‘CIVIL WAR’: THE BELTWAY EXPERT CLASS by Max Blumenthal and Wyatt Reed· 062623
Numerous serious casualties were incurred during Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin’s supposed “coup.” The Grayzone offers an in-depth look at the massacre carried out by some of America’s top Russia experts against their own credibility.
When Wagner Group leader Yevgeny Prigozhin launched a supposed revolt against Russian President Vladimir Putin on June 23, sending his forces on a march toward Moscow following a series of tirades against the country’s defense establishment, Washington’s expert class overflowed with an orgy of regime change fantasies.
For just over 12 hours, everyone from former US ambassador to Russia and noted Hitler apologist Michael McFaul to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to neocon pundit Anne Applebaum exploded with seemingly libidinal excitement about a supposed “civil war” that was certain to feature “Russians…killing Russians,” along with “lots of casualties” and Putin “probably hiding somewhere.”
It was as though the Soviet Union was collapsing all over again, and Prigozhin, a character named on the FBI’s most wanted list whom the US government has sanctioned for leading what it described as a “transnational criminal organization,” was suddenly a white knight storming into Moscow to liberate Russia from “the Putin regime” on the back of a tank. Move over, Juan Guaido.
Expecting a bloodbath and seismic political upheaval, corporate networks like CNN had budgeted wall-to-wall coverage of the coup that wasn’t, filling cable news green rooms with rent-a-generals, K Street think tankers, and war-hungry former diplomatic corps hacks.
On the afternoon of June 24, however, news broke across the US that Prigozhin had struck a deal with Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko to end his protest and go into exile. Thus ended a largely bloodless affair that ultimately saw fewer documented deaths than the January 6 Capitol Riot.
Continued at https://thegrayzone.com/2023/06/26/russias-civil-war-beltway-expert/
Note: Originally posted to BV Wordpress by Michael Murray.
It's amazing the number of "experts" who run their mouths before having any sense of the run of events.
Experts get paid regardless of whether they are right. The key thing for an expert is to agree with the people paying you.
How true!
Mostly to be found on Western MSM media Bill.
They all wet their pants that Putin was going to be killed and Russia destroyed.
Russia! Russia! Russia! Russia! All started by Hillary Rodham Clinton and her henchman!
Psychopaths
Peace is not to be given a chance because there is more Power [the ability to force other Human Beings to do what You want them to do regardless of what they want to do] and Wealth [the ability to buy and sell Power for a profit] to be gained with, from, and by War.
I like the statement from TomG. No, Putin is not losing his calm and reasonable control of the situation. If anything, this "Prigozhin escapade" has solidified the support behind him, even from his many serious critics. There are a few elements—apparently not very many—who are not merely critical, but treacherous. They'll be rooted out. As for Prigozhin and the traitorous soldiers in the Wagner Group (seemingly no officers were included—but we'll see), they'll not be forgiven by the Army, so I don't predict a bright future for them. Putin made a bad mistake in trusting Prigozhin—they have a long history together, not entirely smooth. According to some sources, Prigozhin served 10 years for armed robbery, and that wasn't his only sentence. I think that Prigozhin had been bought by the Ukrainian security forces, with American money, for this charade, which Putin didn't antecedently believe would happen. I think that Zelensky is simply in it for the money as well. He's willing to sacrifice Ukrainian men—and Ukraine itself—for cash. He probably recognized a kindred traitor in Prigozhin, which Putin did not. It seems to me that there was a scheme (aided and abetted by . . . MI-6 perhaps?) to coordinate the Prigozhin escapade with the famous Ukrainian counter-offensive in the belief that that would cause the Russian governmental apparatus to fall into disorder and allow Putin's enemies to undermine his authority and control and might also disorganize the Russian defenses in the south. Speculation, of course; but if it's anything close to right, it completely backfired. Putin was blindsided, but you can be sure that it won't happen again. The folks who will be taken in by the Western agitprop, now in full swing, are only those who are already taken in. Even the American public seems to be waking up. I'm with you in your conclusion, Mr. Astore.
in russia exist a tiny west facing intelligentsia, a us connected fifth column of atlanticists and fellow travelers. many with relations in usa!
the us' take of their power in russia is based on these and the us inflated their influence in russia much as they did in the fifth columns in korea, vietnam, iran, iraq libya....
I'm really impressed by the young kids sometimes.
They are not as unaware and dumb as we boomers like to portray them.
These kids comments show they are not fooled: "Oligarchs and their toys! USA better listen up. How much did this cost the CIA again? You call that an insurrection? A few lousy tanks and some "comrades" singing at a sidewalk cafe? I don't think we got our money's worth on this one." LOL
The fact is this bought-and-paid-for CIA "coup" was way over-hyped.
Coincidence that it came right after the Pentagon "found" $6.2-billion?
And the exaggeration by the gloating gleeful MSM medium vomit inducing.
I swear "This is the end of the Orange Man" and "This is the end of Putin" we must have heard a hundred times from these CIA schooled talking heads! It's as if they are all reading the same notes the CIA handed them!
To use an American expression - this coup was a huge nothing burger!
Putin is not going anywhere. There is not going to be a Russian Civil War.
Sorry to burst your bubble neocons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC1T6ZlsPXk
i'm curious, Dennis. Did You actually watch that entire 2 hour, 53 minute, 22 second video?
Why do you ask Jeff?
From Your preface, Dennis ~ that "I'm really impressed by the young kids sometimes... These kids comments show they are not fooled:..."; i was wondering which specific point in the almost 3-hour video You were specifically referring to.
Not taking the bait* Jeff. Sorry
*To respond to someone's actions or words in the way that they intended.
Their behaviour may seem insulting, but it's important not to rise to the bait and get cross.
Heh. Well, Dennis - to use the term "taking" in a different way - i'm sorry You apparently take my question as some sort of "insult." So it goes, eh? Have a Great day.
This is cute: https://www.memri.org/tv/russia-today-tweets-ai-generated-video-mocking-western-leaders-sanctions
This antipodean's take after listening to Col Douglas Macgregor, and Scott Ritter.
Prigozhin has been making outrageous statements and does not accept his part in the chain of command. For that reason, they think the Wagner group needs to be integrated into the regular Russian army. It is essential that Putin does this.
Prigozhin, a convicted criminal who spent 10-years in jail, and has made they say>€100-million during the conflict, and is not a military man, opposes the idea and made a theatrical attempt at getting his own way. Not one senior officer in Wagner joined his protest and no shots were fired. The Russian people showed a lot of love for the soldiers, and also think Putin is a great leader who handled the situation with great skill.
But it has sadly damaged Russia in the Western World's eyes. And emboldened Western warmongers.
Putin has to get tough, stop trying to save what's left of Ukraine due to the crazed aspirations of a Neo-Nazi US puppet comedian, and unleash his superb and powerful military to end this war that's already over. And with Xi's help maybe, get sensible leaders in Ukrainian to accept the peace agreement they already signed in April 2022. And show these neocon fools in Washington that they need to back off and rethink their hegemonic goals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfL00TyDjyE
“Coup or Psyop” Kalibrated Episode #50
Is it as simple as infighting that led to a fake coup or could it be an internal operation aimed at consolidating power and removing obstacles?
Great discussion by a clued-up guy
Never doubted that Prigozhin was building up the west for a head fake.
Look weak when you are strong and strong when you are weak - Sun Tzu.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKJOopAWd2Y
Like i asked yesterday: On what basis should anybody believe anything that anybody in Moscow says about anything any more than that they should believe anything that anybody in Kyiv or DC says about anything?
Or what Anybody else says about Anything, no matter Where they are? Especially when it comes to the "coup" in Russia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntBM9h8LFy0
Like i said: No matter Who they are, no matter Where they are, no matter What they say about Anything that they say about this.
Kyiv’s Wagner Warning, Kherson Hit With 500 Kg Bomb, Putin “Stays Up Till 3 AM”
Was this all just a ploy all along?
Former British General Lord Richard Dannatt has warned that the Wagner Group may lead an attack on Kyiv from Belarus. Russian President Putin says he keeps track of his ‘special operation’ around the clock.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tyk7kjcmeeQ
Care to let anybody know, Dennis, exactly Who [and/or What] ]this "CRUX" is that is the source of this infotainment? And Who owns, operates, and controls it?
You are always telling us who it is Jeff.
You want to tell us again good man?
Until You linked it to that video, Dennis, i had never heard of "CRUX."
That's why i asked my questions to one who apparently can answer it, and who also apparently trusts it as a "reliable source." Otherwise, why would he have posted that link?
Watch the video - and decide for yourself Jeff if it is a "reliable source."
You are grown man.
CRUX has 1.8-million subscribers.
If not delete it.
As i have explained to You at least once, if not twice before, Dennis: i don't watch videos~ even from my followed sources of news, views, information, and bullshit ~ that do not have available transcripts.
i can read the transcript of a one-hour video in five minutes, and determine whether or not watching the entire video [or specific parts of it] is worth my time.
It's a free World my friend.
You are free to get your information from where you want.
But you are missing a lot of stuff - to your peril
Cheers M8. No worries