I completely agree .. War is monstrous, and the weight of it is piled on the shoulders and lives of the most able and youthful males among us [only recently somewhat extended to females, all genders], their bodies gathered and placed on the altar of it …
SOME wars do protect our country in a world grown “small,” but far too many ask far too much of our soldiers, sailors, flyers for reasons other than jeopardy to our homeland and freedoms … But they answer the call, with honor and decency in their hearts.
What monstrous thinking to send them off for any reason other than true defense of our Constitution’s pronouncements for our democracy…
Yes, very sadly, some were pretty much unavoidable … wars that established the country’s separation from England {including 1812}, and the one that maintained our unity {such as it was}, the “Civil”. And WWII … not the only ones, but the primary…
I do not say these fights succeeded in all elements, but they were fought to hold the country together … What we have done with the country, notwithstanding.
Are you of a mind that we HAVE fought wars to sustain our Constitutional democracy? Or that we have not?
{I am NOT completely unwilling to commit our forces to struggles that support allies, as well … given that the world needs allies ….But those need to be done with great gravity and thought … I only wish I were able to be among those who go to fight, since I feel an enormous sense of obligation and horror at sending our young people out to kill and be killed.}
My guess is that ALL Wars are “avoidable.” It all just depends upon who has the power and wealth to wage war, and what they want to accomplish by having that particular War.
But what about America’s Wars of Expansion: The Mexican, Indian, and Spanish American Wars? Were they justified?
And was the cost of the Civil War worth what it accomplished? What would have happened if the South had not been stopped from seceding by that War?
And exactly how was World War II protecting America’s sovereign homeland or its Constitutional democracy? Was Japan or Germany going to invade?
And finally, how do You define those “allies” that You are not completely unwilling to commit American forces to?
And please trust me: You are missing absolutely nothing by not being among those who go to fight, to kill and maim, and to be killed or maimed. Nothing at all.
People can debate whether the reasons for various wars were sufficient to wage war …. That depends on how much one is willing to put up with, or how much the desired result of actually fighting IS the desired result … I’m not one to advocate appeasement in many circumstances, thought it may occasionally not only be possible but preferable … yet, that depends on the issues at hand, the nature of the appeasement, and the nature of the person or country being appeased.
Of course, all wars are avoidable. That’s not the point. Of course they’re avoidable, especially if there’s at least one side that absolutely won’t fight one. I’m pretty sure i don’t want to live in that world. …{I’m interested in how you think wars can be avoided, give the realities of the human animal…}
Yes, that is what I mean, but not that simply. There is much more complexity to living on earth with 8 billion people. Refusing to engage in a war under any circumstances is not a solution to ending war, or a way to allow people living a decent, violence-free, and secure life … Government is not a cause of war. That is nonsense. Sorry, just nonsense. Simplistic. The people DO need to be much more strongly in charge of their government — not the other way around — but that is a much longer conversation.
The first fact, Pat, is that the people who decide to have wars and then force the Peoples of their Nation into having one DO NOT FIGHT OR PAY FOR any of those Wars.
It's not the Kings, Queens, Bishops, Knights, or Rooks that fight and pay for them, monetarily, physically, mentally, or spiritually. It is the Pawns who do that. As as long as Pawns keep fighting in and paying for all these Wars, there will be War.
And the quickest, simplest, and easiest way to eliminate War is to eliminate Government, and the ability of individuals, groups, organizations, and institutions to use that Government for their own purposes: In this case, the gain in Wealth and/or Power to be realized thru waging a War; even if that War is not ultimately won.
Eliminate Government, and War ~ at least on the type, scale, and intensity of the 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries ~ will be eliminated.
And eliminating Religion when it is used to justify and glorify War would be a very good step in the right direction, as well.
Pat: I feel if we can all abide with each other as in one world, no borders, w/ no more petty squabbles over Politics & Religions too as in a new Understanding through the pursuit of science and human cultural understanding as our Goal---we may then have a future as well as we may then also have a chance solving our planets problems. What is the Doomsday Clock set at? Isn't it now 90 secs. to Midnite.!? In my Line Firefighting we used to say we're all the same in the obscura of Smoke: Race, Creed, Color no difference...! Wish it was that simple. "Saganist!!!"
Eloquently said. When we see the suicide rates among Veterans, we know that something is not right about the sacrifices we are asking of our military. As you said, "For what?"
Bill think you and your family for your service. Today the flag waves in memory of both my wifes dad and mine along with many of their family members that served in WW11 and Korea.
and you are so right the armerican war machine currently has no conscience; many if not all the wars and conflicts I have abserved in my 77 years of existance have been foolish adventures into theatres we should not have been in. that's MHO. Vote them in (wars) or stay out. But does Congress or the SPOTUS or the Executive branch or the many war/spy/servalience departments listen to the poeple: Ever? a big no.....so where is the demoracy 'of'', 'for' and 'by the people' Bill. What the hell are we fighting these conflicts for???? _to feed the war machine_
It is ironic to read that a historian of American history would still hold to the fiction that the U.S. military‘s purpose was the defense of the Constitution. I think that Native Americans would beg to differ. The history of the U.S. clearly shows that its main purpose from the beginning was the clearing the „frontier“ of those whom Theodore Roosevelt supposedly called „dirty savages.“ That military did quite a job in less than 100 years of ethnic cleansing. What was that Monroe Doctrine all about? I am aware of the high regard bestowed on those brave men of WW II, but nobody wants to explore/explain to the innocents why this war really happened. I am, of course, writing as the son of a veteran from that other side - WW I and WW II - and as one who knows a little bit of history. My dad indoctrinated me to be a real conscientious objector - pacifist. That species is despised or looked on with condescension.
You have no idea how I have been reflecting on Germany’s history as a citizen and a historian! I have been facing the sneers about Germany since the day I arrived fifty-eight years ago when I took my first American history class and the conversations I had with academics and regular people. The ignorance regarding your country and mine is abysmal. As the saying goes „the victor writes the history.“
But i'm curious: Why do You think World War II "really happened"? And is it possible to answer that question without first explaining why and how World War I really happened?
That wasn't my point, Karl. My point was simple: We should all reflect on our biases. You found it "ironic" that I would be so blind as to believe the U.S. military upholds the U.S. Constitution. All I asked of you is to reflect on your own potential biases. I think that's a fair ask.
I am in vain looking for „potential“ in your response to my critique. I understood it to mean that I was not objective because I hadn’t reflected on my biases toward Germany and German history. I wasn’t raised nor educated to be unreflective.
As a retired U.S. military officer who swore an oath to the U.S. Constitution that I took seriously, I am aware of my bias, my tendency not to want to think the worse of "my" military. You pointed out the "irony" of a trained historian like myself to be so purblind toward the U.S. military and its history. I assure you I do see its worst aspects, even as I reflect on my own service and an oath I took very seriously indeed.
When you highlighted my alleged blindspots as a historian, I merely asked you to consider whether you had some of your own. I assure you we all have them, no matter how reflective we are.
No one is perfectly objective; it's impossible. All historians know this, or should know it. There is no version of Rankean history that is "just the facts" with no biases. That's my point, and if I dnd't make it clearly, I hope I am now.
Jeff, we have arrived back after six weeks on the road and with almost 6300 miles on the speedometer. I picked out a small selection of books that could be of interest to you regarding your questions. WW I and background I highly recommend Jonathan Steinberg, BISMARCK - A Life. He is the creator of the federal state of modern Germany. Another very readable book I by English writer Christina Croft, THE INNOCENCE OF KAISER WILHELM II. She provides a very different understanding of this complex man than the one most people have of him. Excellent citation and documentation are provided. The only criticism I have is the lack of careful editing. (Reading it I was reminded of how Putin has been presented by the western mainstream media.) Another most interesting account is Adam Hochschild, AMERICAN MIDNIGHT - The Great War, A Violent Peace and Democracy‘s Forgotten Crisis. This book should be required reading for any teacher of American history. For WW II my first recommendation is an unusual one and also a riveting book. It is not a straightforward history book, but an enumeration of statements by numerous significant and not so significant actors of pre-WW II politics and military planning. It ends just about when Pearl Harbor occurred. The title is HUMAN SMOKE - The Beginnings of World War II, the End of Civilization. It is written from a pacifist perspective. It ends with: „I dedicate this book to the memory of Clarence Pickett and other American and British pacifists. They have never er really gotten their due. They tried to save Jewish refugees, feed Europe, reconcile the United States and Japan, and stop the war from happening. They failed, but they were right.“
My last recommendation is Karl Diedrich Bracher, THE GERMAN DICTATORSHIP - The Origins, Structure, and Effects of National Socialism. This is an appreciation of the author’s larger two volume work in German. I hope these recommendations are of some help. I would start with HUMAN SMOKE as my first choice (I am a pacifist who doesn’t believe that WW II was justified, but actually desired.)
Ok. In simple words study the Versailles Treaty carefully as a start - War Guilt Clause and the resulting imposed war reparations. Secondly, explore how president Woodrow Wilson betrayed his Fourteen Points. Thirdly, study who financed the NSDAP. Without Hitler there would never have been a WW II. This is just a small, but important, part of a complex history.
Thank You, Karl. If i may, i'd like to ask a couple of follow-up questions:
~ As a professional Historian, what would You recommend as the best books to understand Versailles and who made that happen, Wilson's Betrayal and who made that happen, and who financed the NSDAP and how and why they financed it?
~ What was the cause of World War I, and who made THAT happen?
~ Do You think the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia had anything to do with the rise of Hitler?
~ What role did the rise of Japan have in making WW II happen, and was there any actual strategic or tactical linkage between Nazi Germany and the imperialist Empire of Japan?
jg, this is difficult for me at this moment. I am sitting in a motel room and have no access to my library. My wife and I have been on a six week road trip (our last one due to age) to visit old friends and aging relatives, including my seriously younger sister to celebrate her eightieth birthday. We are expecting to be home in Lincoln by tomorrow night. Some of your questions you will find answers for Wikipedia. On the deeper issues I need to refer to books in my library. The Bolshevik Revolution was not a major player except that Hitler presented himself as a savior from the communist/bolshevik menace. Hitler, in spite of what is popularly believed, was not elected by the German people. I think his popularity peaked at 37% in the last free election. He became chancellor (the executive in charge of policies) by nomination by President Hindenburg. He became „dictator“ when he exploited the burning of the Parliament building. The fire supposedly was started by a Dutch communist. Here is a Bolshevik connection because Hitler used it to have the Enabling Act passed by Parliament. The only party voting against it were the Socialists (SPD). Though there were serious reservations by major politicians, National Socialism was the lesser evil compared to communism - Stalin was by that time in full control of Russia. People, including academics, like to say that WW II started in 1939. Personally, in my opinion, it didn’t really start till the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. In July, if my memory serves me right, Senator Truman is quoted in the NYT (again if my memory isn’t failing me on the date) in July of 1941 after Hitler had launched his attack on the Soviet Union: „If the Russians win, we should support the Germans. If the Germans win, we should support the Russians. I certainly don’t want a German win.“ I provides a little insight into the murkiness of motives for war. I will try to provide you with some reading recommendations after my return home. Sorry that I can’t be of more help at the moment.
It's hard to believe 39 Years have gone by since my Faith in God and this Biblical insight, "This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel, saying: 'Not by military force and not by physical strength, but by My spirit,' says the Lord of Hosts," moved me to make THE DECLARATION on Remembrance Day, November 11, 1985, in the hearing of the Governor-General, Prime Minister, Military Brass, Ambassadors of the Nations and the Public when the US and Soviets were shouting at each other in Public with no Diplomacy to lower the temper. It did subside AFTER THE DECLARATION.
This was AFTER the Moment of Silence, and AFTER the Prayers by Jewish, Christian and Muslim Religious there should be NO MORE WAR, during the total silence as wreaths were laid by Dignitaries at CanaDa's National War Cenotaph.
“Hear O people and Nations, even to the ends of the Earth, the Word of the LORD God, who is, and was, and is to come, The Almighty. The LORD has a controversy with the people. Do you do well to honour the dead, and yet, deny the God of the Living?
Why do you follow the vain traditions of men, and make of no effect, the Principles of God? You come here for one hour, one day a year, in a great show of Public Patriotism, and then forgetting, go back to work and make the same careless mistakes made by the generations prior to the 1st and 2nd World Wars.
Hitler is dead, but it’s his legacy that remains. A Soviet-American military-industrial complex consuming $trillions of dollars every year, holding the entire World hostage…………”
“Hostage” was the last word said perched on a bus shelter roof, as police got up and grabbed the megaphone.
I was arrested for 'shouting, causing a disturbance,' convicted and fined $250. I appealed without a lawyer to The Supreme Court of Canada.
There is no doubt these 39 Years later, the US-Russian Military-Industrial Complex is holding this World "hostage" like it wasn't in 1985.
What is required ~ at least for starters ~ is simple. It just isn’t easy.
What is required is a national, grass-roots movement led, organized, and executed by Veterans to change November 11 from “Veterans Day” back to “Armistice Day,” originally the observation and celebration of the END of a War back over a century ago.
The END of a War that was to be “the End of ALL War.”
And the ultimate Mission, Focus, and Intent ~ of the Veterans who will make that change of that particular National Holiday happen ~ will be to eliminate the need for any more “Veterans” to be sent off to kill and maim; and to be killed and maimed.
Having been a long-time student of war before and after decades of military service, my approach to war and soldiers is defined by two citations. The first is Rudyard Kipling's two-line epitath "Common Form" about why wars happen, soldiers die, and soldiers of all countries should be honoured as victims of propaganda lies -
"If any question why we died,
Tell them, because our fathers lied."
The second is from Georges Bernanos's sentence about soldiers in his 1936 deeply religious novel <Diary of a Country Priest>:
"If the Good Lord doesn't save soldier, all soldiers, just because they're soldiers, there's no point in trying."
Now THIS is really going to be interesting, eh? ...:
KREMLIN DISMISSES REPORTS TRUMP AND PUTIN SPOKE IN RECENT DAYS AS 'PURE FICTION'
by Gram Slattery and Humeyra Pamuk / Reuters 11 Nov 24
WEST PALM BEACH, Florida/WASHINGTON, Nov 11 (Reuters) - The Kremlin dismissed on Monday reports that U.S. President-elect Donald Trump had spoken to Russian President Vladimir Putin in recent days as "pure fiction."
A source told Reuters on Sunday that Trump, who has criticised the scale of U.S. military and financial support for Kyiv and said he will end the war quickly, had spoken to Putin in recent days.
The source told Reuters they were familiar with the conversation, first reported by The Washington Post, opens new tab, which cited unidentified sources as saying Trump had told Putin that he should not escalate the Ukraine war.
Advertisement · Scroll to continue
In an unusual move, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said on Monday no such call had taken place between Putin and Trump.
"This is completely untrue. This is pure fiction, it's just false information," he told reporters. "There was no conversation."
"This is the most obvious example of the quality of the information that is being published now, sometimes even in fairly reputable publications," he said.
Asked whether Putin had plans for any contacts with Trump, Peskov said: "There are no concrete plans yet."
Trump spoke to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy last Wednesday.
Asked about the purported Trump-Putin call, Steven Cheung, Trump's communications director, said: "We do not comment on private calls between President Trump and other world leaders."
Republican Trump will take office on Jan. 20 after winning the Nov. 5 presidential election. Biden has invited Trump to the Oval Office on Wednesday, the White House said.
One thing I'd request on this Veteran's Day is drop the phrase that arose with Bush's GWOT in the Mideast - "thank you for your service."
It's well meaning, of course, but it seemed to be conceived as a way for civilians to handle the awkward situation of actually talking to an active duty or former service member. And it precluded any opportunity for discussion or question of the causes and goals for which that service is rendered.
The reality is the military was, and is, filled with individuals who have their own perspectives about where they served and what they did. Further, all of who served, whether in war or peace, have mixed feelings about their time in the military. They should be treated as individuals and asked about how they feel rather than being dismissed with a casual thank you - however, well intended.
But if you ask, be prepared for what someone might tell you.
I always find that interesting - like your Dad, neither my step-father nor any of my uncles ever spoke of their combat experience. And my paternal grandfather, a Tommy from the north of England who managed to survive the 1914-1918 War including the battle of the Somme, never spoke of those dark years, either.
I completely agree .. War is monstrous, and the weight of it is piled on the shoulders and lives of the most able and youthful males among us [only recently somewhat extended to females, all genders], their bodies gathered and placed on the altar of it …
SOME wars do protect our country in a world grown “small,” but far too many ask far too much of our soldiers, sailors, flyers for reasons other than jeopardy to our homeland and freedoms … But they answer the call, with honor and decency in their hearts.
What monstrous thinking to send them off for any reason other than true defense of our Constitution’s pronouncements for our democracy…
I totally agree, sir.
Pat: Can You specify WHICH of those "SOME wars" protected this country? Any in particular?
Yes, very sadly, some were pretty much unavoidable … wars that established the country’s separation from England {including 1812}, and the one that maintained our unity {such as it was}, the “Civil”. And WWII … not the only ones, but the primary…
I do not say these fights succeeded in all elements, but they were fought to hold the country together … What we have done with the country, notwithstanding.
Are you of a mind that we HAVE fought wars to sustain our Constitutional democracy? Or that we have not?
{I am NOT completely unwilling to commit our forces to struggles that support allies, as well … given that the world needs allies ….But those need to be done with great gravity and thought … I only wish I were able to be among those who go to fight, since I feel an enormous sense of obligation and horror at sending our young people out to kill and be killed.}
Thank You for sharing Your thoughts on that, Pat.
My guess is that ALL Wars are “avoidable.” It all just depends upon who has the power and wealth to wage war, and what they want to accomplish by having that particular War.
But what about America’s Wars of Expansion: The Mexican, Indian, and Spanish American Wars? Were they justified?
And was the cost of the Civil War worth what it accomplished? What would have happened if the South had not been stopped from seceding by that War?
And exactly how was World War II protecting America’s sovereign homeland or its Constitutional democracy? Was Japan or Germany going to invade?
And finally, how do You define those “allies” that You are not completely unwilling to commit American forces to?
And please trust me: You are missing absolutely nothing by not being among those who go to fight, to kill and maim, and to be killed or maimed. Nothing at all.
People can debate whether the reasons for various wars were sufficient to wage war …. That depends on how much one is willing to put up with, or how much the desired result of actually fighting IS the desired result … I’m not one to advocate appeasement in many circumstances, thought it may occasionally not only be possible but preferable … yet, that depends on the issues at hand, the nature of the appeasement, and the nature of the person or country being appeased.
Of course, all wars are avoidable. That’s not the point. Of course they’re avoidable, especially if there’s at least one side that absolutely won’t fight one. I’m pretty sure i don’t want to live in that world. …{I’m interested in how you think wars can be avoided, give the realities of the human animal…}
i'm not sure i follow You: Are You saying that You wouldn't want to live in a world where War is avoided because one side refuses to fight in one?
Yes, that is what I mean, but not that simply. There is much more complexity to living on earth with 8 billion people. Refusing to engage in a war under any circumstances is not a solution to ending war, or a way to allow people living a decent, violence-free, and secure life … Government is not a cause of war. That is nonsense. Sorry, just nonsense. Simplistic. The people DO need to be much more strongly in charge of their government — not the other way around — but that is a much longer conversation.
😎
The first fact, Pat, is that the people who decide to have wars and then force the Peoples of their Nation into having one DO NOT FIGHT OR PAY FOR any of those Wars.
It's not the Kings, Queens, Bishops, Knights, or Rooks that fight and pay for them, monetarily, physically, mentally, or spiritually. It is the Pawns who do that. As as long as Pawns keep fighting in and paying for all these Wars, there will be War.
And the quickest, simplest, and easiest way to eliminate War is to eliminate Government, and the ability of individuals, groups, organizations, and institutions to use that Government for their own purposes: In this case, the gain in Wealth and/or Power to be realized thru waging a War; even if that War is not ultimately won.
Eliminate Government, and War ~ at least on the type, scale, and intensity of the 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries ~ will be eliminated.
And eliminating Religion when it is used to justify and glorify War would be a very good step in the right direction, as well.
Thankee. Will respond after recovery from a very full day.
Pat: I feel if we can all abide with each other as in one world, no borders, w/ no more petty squabbles over Politics & Religions too as in a new Understanding through the pursuit of science and human cultural understanding as our Goal---we may then have a future as well as we may then also have a chance solving our planets problems. What is the Doomsday Clock set at? Isn't it now 90 secs. to Midnite.!? In my Line Firefighting we used to say we're all the same in the obscura of Smoke: Race, Creed, Color no difference...! Wish it was that simple. "Saganist!!!"
I wish it were that simple, too. Not enough people believe it to make it real. I’m a Humanist {atheist}. Fan of Sagan.
Armistice Day. I hope you will observe a minute of silence at 11:11 AM.
Eloquently said. When we see the suicide rates among Veterans, we know that something is not right about the sacrifices we are asking of our military. As you said, "For what?"
Bill think you and your family for your service. Today the flag waves in memory of both my wifes dad and mine along with many of their family members that served in WW11 and Korea.
and you are so right the armerican war machine currently has no conscience; many if not all the wars and conflicts I have abserved in my 77 years of existance have been foolish adventures into theatres we should not have been in. that's MHO. Vote them in (wars) or stay out. But does Congress or the SPOTUS or the Executive branch or the many war/spy/servalience departments listen to the poeple: Ever? a big no.....so where is the demoracy 'of'', 'for' and 'by the people' Bill. What the hell are we fighting these conflicts for???? _to feed the war machine_
War, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing! Say it again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn91L9goKfQ
It is ironic to read that a historian of American history would still hold to the fiction that the U.S. military‘s purpose was the defense of the Constitution. I think that Native Americans would beg to differ. The history of the U.S. clearly shows that its main purpose from the beginning was the clearing the „frontier“ of those whom Theodore Roosevelt supposedly called „dirty savages.“ That military did quite a job in less than 100 years of ethnic cleansing. What was that Monroe Doctrine all about? I am aware of the high regard bestowed on those brave men of WW II, but nobody wants to explore/explain to the innocents why this war really happened. I am, of course, writing as the son of a veteran from that other side - WW I and WW II - and as one who knows a little bit of history. My dad indoctrinated me to be a real conscientious objector - pacifist. That species is despised or looked on with condescension.
Karl, if you can see and critique my biases toward my country, perhaps you might reflect on your own biases toward Germany and German history.
You have no idea how I have been reflecting on Germany’s history as a citizen and a historian! I have been facing the sneers about Germany since the day I arrived fifty-eight years ago when I took my first American history class and the conversations I had with academics and regular people. The ignorance regarding your country and mine is abysmal. As the saying goes „the victor writes the history.“
Good points, Karl.
But i'm curious: Why do You think World War II "really happened"? And is it possible to answer that question without first explaining why and how World War I really happened?
I suggest you ask Bill since he thinks I have not adequately reflected on my country’s history.
That wasn't my point, Karl. My point was simple: We should all reflect on our biases. You found it "ironic" that I would be so blind as to believe the U.S. military upholds the U.S. Constitution. All I asked of you is to reflect on your own potential biases. I think that's a fair ask.
I am in vain looking for „potential“ in your response to my critique. I understood it to mean that I was not objective because I hadn’t reflected on my biases toward Germany and German history. I wasn’t raised nor educated to be unreflective.
As a retired U.S. military officer who swore an oath to the U.S. Constitution that I took seriously, I am aware of my bias, my tendency not to want to think the worse of "my" military. You pointed out the "irony" of a trained historian like myself to be so purblind toward the U.S. military and its history. I assure you I do see its worst aspects, even as I reflect on my own service and an oath I took very seriously indeed.
When you highlighted my alleged blindspots as a historian, I merely asked you to consider whether you had some of your own. I assure you we all have them, no matter how reflective we are.
No one is perfectly objective; it's impossible. All historians know this, or should know it. There is no version of Rankean history that is "just the facts" with no biases. That's my point, and if I dnd't make it clearly, I hope I am now.
I understand your position very well and accept without reservation your honest conviction. Thanks for the clarification.
Jeff, we have arrived back after six weeks on the road and with almost 6300 miles on the speedometer. I picked out a small selection of books that could be of interest to you regarding your questions. WW I and background I highly recommend Jonathan Steinberg, BISMARCK - A Life. He is the creator of the federal state of modern Germany. Another very readable book I by English writer Christina Croft, THE INNOCENCE OF KAISER WILHELM II. She provides a very different understanding of this complex man than the one most people have of him. Excellent citation and documentation are provided. The only criticism I have is the lack of careful editing. (Reading it I was reminded of how Putin has been presented by the western mainstream media.) Another most interesting account is Adam Hochschild, AMERICAN MIDNIGHT - The Great War, A Violent Peace and Democracy‘s Forgotten Crisis. This book should be required reading for any teacher of American history. For WW II my first recommendation is an unusual one and also a riveting book. It is not a straightforward history book, but an enumeration of statements by numerous significant and not so significant actors of pre-WW II politics and military planning. It ends just about when Pearl Harbor occurred. The title is HUMAN SMOKE - The Beginnings of World War II, the End of Civilization. It is written from a pacifist perspective. It ends with: „I dedicate this book to the memory of Clarence Pickett and other American and British pacifists. They have never er really gotten their due. They tried to save Jewish refugees, feed Europe, reconcile the United States and Japan, and stop the war from happening. They failed, but they were right.“
My last recommendation is Karl Diedrich Bracher, THE GERMAN DICTATORSHIP - The Origins, Structure, and Effects of National Socialism. This is an appreciation of the author’s larger two volume work in German. I hope these recommendations are of some help. I would start with HUMAN SMOKE as my first choice (I am a pacifist who doesn’t believe that WW II was justified, but actually desired.)
At this time, Karl, i'm not interested in what Bill thinks about that, but what You think about it.
Ok. In simple words study the Versailles Treaty carefully as a start - War Guilt Clause and the resulting imposed war reparations. Secondly, explore how president Woodrow Wilson betrayed his Fourteen Points. Thirdly, study who financed the NSDAP. Without Hitler there would never have been a WW II. This is just a small, but important, part of a complex history.
Thank You, Karl. If i may, i'd like to ask a couple of follow-up questions:
~ As a professional Historian, what would You recommend as the best books to understand Versailles and who made that happen, Wilson's Betrayal and who made that happen, and who financed the NSDAP and how and why they financed it?
~ What was the cause of World War I, and who made THAT happen?
~ Do You think the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia had anything to do with the rise of Hitler?
~ What role did the rise of Japan have in making WW II happen, and was there any actual strategic or tactical linkage between Nazi Germany and the imperialist Empire of Japan?
jg, this is difficult for me at this moment. I am sitting in a motel room and have no access to my library. My wife and I have been on a six week road trip (our last one due to age) to visit old friends and aging relatives, including my seriously younger sister to celebrate her eightieth birthday. We are expecting to be home in Lincoln by tomorrow night. Some of your questions you will find answers for Wikipedia. On the deeper issues I need to refer to books in my library. The Bolshevik Revolution was not a major player except that Hitler presented himself as a savior from the communist/bolshevik menace. Hitler, in spite of what is popularly believed, was not elected by the German people. I think his popularity peaked at 37% in the last free election. He became chancellor (the executive in charge of policies) by nomination by President Hindenburg. He became „dictator“ when he exploited the burning of the Parliament building. The fire supposedly was started by a Dutch communist. Here is a Bolshevik connection because Hitler used it to have the Enabling Act passed by Parliament. The only party voting against it were the Socialists (SPD). Though there were serious reservations by major politicians, National Socialism was the lesser evil compared to communism - Stalin was by that time in full control of Russia. People, including academics, like to say that WW II started in 1939. Personally, in my opinion, it didn’t really start till the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. In July, if my memory serves me right, Senator Truman is quoted in the NYT (again if my memory isn’t failing me on the date) in July of 1941 after Hitler had launched his attack on the Soviet Union: „If the Russians win, we should support the Germans. If the Germans win, we should support the Russians. I certainly don’t want a German win.“ I provides a little insight into the murkiness of motives for war. I will try to provide you with some reading recommendations after my return home. Sorry that I can’t be of more help at the moment.
Bill, Thank you.
It's hard to believe 39 Years have gone by since my Faith in God and this Biblical insight, "This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel, saying: 'Not by military force and not by physical strength, but by My spirit,' says the Lord of Hosts," moved me to make THE DECLARATION on Remembrance Day, November 11, 1985, in the hearing of the Governor-General, Prime Minister, Military Brass, Ambassadors of the Nations and the Public when the US and Soviets were shouting at each other in Public with no Diplomacy to lower the temper. It did subside AFTER THE DECLARATION.
This was AFTER the Moment of Silence, and AFTER the Prayers by Jewish, Christian and Muslim Religious there should be NO MORE WAR, during the total silence as wreaths were laid by Dignitaries at CanaDa's National War Cenotaph.
“Hear O people and Nations, even to the ends of the Earth, the Word of the LORD God, who is, and was, and is to come, The Almighty. The LORD has a controversy with the people. Do you do well to honour the dead, and yet, deny the God of the Living?
Why do you follow the vain traditions of men, and make of no effect, the Principles of God? You come here for one hour, one day a year, in a great show of Public Patriotism, and then forgetting, go back to work and make the same careless mistakes made by the generations prior to the 1st and 2nd World Wars.
Hitler is dead, but it’s his legacy that remains. A Soviet-American military-industrial complex consuming $trillions of dollars every year, holding the entire World hostage…………”
“Hostage” was the last word said perched on a bus shelter roof, as police got up and grabbed the megaphone.
I was arrested for 'shouting, causing a disturbance,' convicted and fined $250. I appealed without a lawyer to The Supreme Court of Canada.
There is no doubt these 39 Years later, the US-Russian Military-Industrial Complex is holding this World "hostage" like it wasn't in 1985.
https://rayjc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/remembrance-day-19853.jpg
There is seemingly no end to militarism, Ray. We're still beating ploughshares into swords and making war forevermore.
That is primarily because there is more wealth and power to be gained from swords, Bill, than there is from ploughshares,
Proclaim this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:
Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.
Joel 3
You never know until you try, but the comment was sent to inform these people
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What is required ~ at least for starters ~ is simple. It just isn’t easy.
What is required is a national, grass-roots movement led, organized, and executed by Veterans to change November 11 from “Veterans Day” back to “Armistice Day,” originally the observation and celebration of the END of a War back over a century ago.
The END of a War that was to be “the End of ALL War.”
And the ultimate Mission, Focus, and Intent ~ of the Veterans who will make that change of that particular National Holiday happen ~ will be to eliminate the need for any more “Veterans” to be sent off to kill and maim; and to be killed and maimed.
Like i said: Simple but not easy.
Salute to you and your family my brother 👏🏼🫡
I give a hearty shout out to the Veterans for Peace.
Having been a long-time student of war before and after decades of military service, my approach to war and soldiers is defined by two citations. The first is Rudyard Kipling's two-line epitath "Common Form" about why wars happen, soldiers die, and soldiers of all countries should be honoured as victims of propaganda lies -
"If any question why we died,
Tell them, because our fathers lied."
The second is from Georges Bernanos's sentence about soldiers in his 1936 deeply religious novel <Diary of a Country Priest>:
"If the Good Lord doesn't save soldier, all soldiers, just because they're soldiers, there's no point in trying."
Now THIS is really going to be interesting, eh? ...:
KREMLIN DISMISSES REPORTS TRUMP AND PUTIN SPOKE IN RECENT DAYS AS 'PURE FICTION'
by Gram Slattery and Humeyra Pamuk / Reuters 11 Nov 24
WEST PALM BEACH, Florida/WASHINGTON, Nov 11 (Reuters) - The Kremlin dismissed on Monday reports that U.S. President-elect Donald Trump had spoken to Russian President Vladimir Putin in recent days as "pure fiction."
A source told Reuters on Sunday that Trump, who has criticised the scale of U.S. military and financial support for Kyiv and said he will end the war quickly, had spoken to Putin in recent days.
The source told Reuters they were familiar with the conversation, first reported by The Washington Post, opens new tab, which cited unidentified sources as saying Trump had told Putin that he should not escalate the Ukraine war.
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In an unusual move, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said on Monday no such call had taken place between Putin and Trump.
"This is completely untrue. This is pure fiction, it's just false information," he told reporters. "There was no conversation."
"This is the most obvious example of the quality of the information that is being published now, sometimes even in fairly reputable publications," he said.
Asked whether Putin had plans for any contacts with Trump, Peskov said: "There are no concrete plans yet."
Trump spoke to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy last Wednesday.
Asked about the purported Trump-Putin call, Steven Cheung, Trump's communications director, said: "We do not comment on private calls between President Trump and other world leaders."
Republican Trump will take office on Jan. 20 after winning the Nov. 5 presidential election. Biden has invited Trump to the Oval Office on Wednesday, the White House said.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-will-discuss-with-trump-top-us-priorities-wednesday-2024-11-10/
Great minds think alike, eh Bill? Lisa Savage asks:
VETERANS DAY OR ARMISTICE DAY? Glorify War Or Work For Peace?
https://went2thebridge.substack.com/p/veterans-day-or-armistice-day
One thing I'd request on this Veteran's Day is drop the phrase that arose with Bush's GWOT in the Mideast - "thank you for your service."
It's well meaning, of course, but it seemed to be conceived as a way for civilians to handle the awkward situation of actually talking to an active duty or former service member. And it precluded any opportunity for discussion or question of the causes and goals for which that service is rendered.
The reality is the military was, and is, filled with individuals who have their own perspectives about where they served and what they did. Further, all of who served, whether in war or peace, have mixed feelings about their time in the military. They should be treated as individuals and asked about how they feel rather than being dismissed with a casual thank you - however, well intended.
But if you ask, be prepared for what someone might tell you.
My dad fought in WW2. He was always proud of his service but he never spoke about it, other than his hatred of Spam. LOL
I always find that interesting - like your Dad, neither my step-father nor any of my uncles ever spoke of their combat experience. And my paternal grandfather, a Tommy from the north of England who managed to survive the 1914-1918 War including the battle of the Somme, never spoke of those dark years, either.
WAR IS HELL!