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founding

It’s interesting, Dennis, how frequently You cite here on BV that “America has killed more than 20 million people since the end of World War II” meme.

You state that almost as often as You claim that “America is the greatest country in the world” that people all over the world want to come to and live in. Maybe that’s because if they lived here, they wouldn’t have to be worried about being attacked by the American military, eh? At least not yet.

In any event, You raise an interesting question: Isn’t the MIC “blameless” for all this carnage?

After all, all it’s doing is providing the means, methods, mechanisms, and tools for those who establish, control, and direct American foreign policy and its hyper-militarism. It’s not the MIC’s fault that there are trillions and trillions of dollars to be made in their business; as long as they share it properly among all the stakeholders, shareholders, and other beneficiaries of Uncle Sam’s bottomless pit spending capability thru its credit card wars.

In actual point of fact, nobody in the “Military,” “Industrial,” or “Congressional” wings of the MICC could get away with any of what it has inflicted on this Planet over the last 77 years without the willing acceptance by ~ and at least tacit endorsement of ~ all this by the American People. The same People who keep sending War Mongers to Swampland every election, and who keep dutifully sending money to the MICC thru either taxes or campaign donations.

The close to 1,000,000 people killed just in the post-9/11 Wars ~ to say nothing of the millions more who have been physically and psychologically maimed and crippled, or orphaned, widowed or widowered, made childless, and made homeless, hopeless refugees ~ NONE of that could have happened if the American People had not gone along with it completely from the very beginning on September 14, 2001, and the implementation of The Forever War’s AUMF.

So Yeah, You may be right. The MIC is completely and totally blameless for all this. After all, all it’s doing is patriotically and selflessly serving in the “Defense” of America against all forms of Evil. And it’s not its fault that there have been and will continue to be trillions and trillions of dollars to be made in serving in that “Defense.”

And just curious: If all this goes back to Nuland and the State Department in 2014, what did Corporal Bonespurs do during his 4 years on the throne to change ANYTHING about America’s role in what was unfolding and that would ultimately lead to America’s War in Ukraine against Russia? Other, of course, than to attempt to force the President of Ukraine to find some dirt on Biden that the Corporal could use in Election2020?

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I know one man who tried to go against it in New Orleans. But not enough Americans were willing to listen.

It's exceedingly difficult to fight the MICC because they are unified by the pursuit of power and profit. Some of them believe they're even being patriotic. Meanwhile, the American people are largely kept ignorant of wars, even the overt ones, and otherwise kept passively on the sidelines.

Trump will do nothing to change matters. He is too weak and unprincipled. The MICC will cajole and flatter and fawn (and threaten) and Trump will do its bidding.

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founding

Doing the MICC's bidding was exactly what Trump did during the time he was in the Oval Office. Just like Obama, Cheney/Bush the Lesser, Clinton, Etc did before him. And just like Biden is doing after him. Just for starters: How many National Security/Defense-related budgets went down during his reign?

And if the American people are "ignorant of wars and keep passively on the sidelines," Bill, it is only because they choose to ignore those wars and because they have put themselves on the sidelines quite willingly, buried in their hip-pocket telescreens.

Anybody who wants to know virtually anything about any of America's Wars ~ military, economic, financial, social, or cultural ~ today and ever since 9/11 cannot say that that information is not available to them.

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Jeff, I think you underestimate the difficulties many Americans face. If you're working two or even three jobs, if you're struggling to pay the rent or even homeless (and many of the homeless have jobs), if you're in debt due to student loans and/or health care costs, you have no mental energy to fight the federal government and the MICC. Also, as you know, you are indoctrinated to "support our troops" and to see military spending as both essential and patriotic.

My point is not to pick an argument with you. My point is that the blame rests with the centers of power: a corrupt Congress, greedy weapons makers, and a military that just wants to get bigger and bigger and that persists with wars that it knows it can't win, and yet lies about that fact to the American people.

I wouldn't blame Aurora working 70 hours a week cleaning motel rooms for her ignorance of the MICC. I'd blame Condi Rice, Lloyd Austin, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, General Petraeus, Raytheon, Boeing, before I'd tell Aurora she needs to get smart on the MICC.

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founding

Sorry for the delay in responding to this, Bill; but i’ve had to ponder it for a bit.

First of all, i am no more interested in an argument about this [or anything else, for that matter] than You are. I am interested in a Root cause Analysis of WHY there is no Anti-War/Pro-Peace Political/Economic/Social Force in 21st century America.

And WHY there hasn’t been one ~ as we discussed ~ since Vietnam; particularly since OPERATION DESERT STORM, which enabled Papa Bush to chortle: “By God; we’ve finally licked the Vietnam Syndrome.”

Second of all, i am not “blaming” Aurora for anything. If You’re going to put the blame on Rice, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Petraeus, and others of 9/11 and Forever War fame, Aurora was what, 8 or 9 years old that day? Nor am i telling her that she needs to learn about the MICC.

Nor am I talking about those working two or three jobs, the homeless, the student or medical care debtors, or anybody else struggling to stay alive what they need to do. i’m talking about all the rest of America and Americans; those who are home owners or renters, have jobs and/or steady income, and participation and involvement in some semblance of a Civil Society in which to function as a Human Being among other Human Beings.

The question is: How many multi-jobbers like Aurora are there today? And how many homeless, or student and medical [and consumer and credit card] debtors are there in America today?

And the follow-up question is: How many folks were in those situations back when 9/11 happened, and then, particularly when we announced our plans to liberate Iraq of Saddam and his WMDs?

On other words: What was the state of the American Economy in 2001 up to 2008 and the TBTF financial “¢risi$”?

* The Unemployment Rate in 2001 at around 5% was as low as it had been since the early 70s, and the Inflation Rate was less than 2%.

[ https://www.thebalancemoney.com/unemployment-rate-by-year-3305506 ].

* Total federal student loan debt in 2005 was $391 billion, compared to the $1.6 trillion today. [ https://lendedu.com/blog/history-of-student-loans ]

* The Housing market was booming and just about Anybody could get a mortgage on just about anything for just about nothing. Which is exactly why there was the Crash of that Boom in 2008. [ https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/09/financial-crisis-review.asp ]

* And while determining what were and are the actual, accurate, and reliable numbers for the total of Homeless persons in America, i am ready to bet that the numbers on 9/11 were considerably less than they are today. Just as, without looking, i am ready to bet that Violent Crime, Suicide, Substance Abuse, and other Rates of indicators of economic and social problems at the individual and collective levels were also less on 9/11 than they are today.

The Point i’m trying to make with all this is that, twenty-one years ago, the vastly overwhelming majority of Americans did not have Economic Hardship to use as a rationale [or excuse] for not challenging what America’s MICC was doing first in Afghanistan, then Iraq, and then everyplace else that The Forever War has taken it since.

So the problem isn’t what is and isn’t going on as far as Anti-War/Pro-Peace activism and actionism today; but what DIDN’T go on 21 years ago when all this shit got started. And Aurora was eight or nine years old.

In all likelihood, it is too late to change America’s trajectory toward whatever happens to a Dying Empire at this stage of its demise, as Jeff Thomas noted in his piece i just posted to “We All Represent "Diversity."

But the problem today is that Nobody is even trying. And that is probably because they know that all the things they’ve tried in the past ~ [if they even tried at all] to first prevent and, failing that, to then stop America’s latest episode of its Forever War ~ have failed.

In any event: Earlier, You mentioned that You had recently participated in a gathering of Peace Activists to do exactly that: Figure out what to do now to begin to wage an effective War Against War and the Ruling Political Class's Warfare As Corporatist Welfare State. Did anything of substance come out of it?

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Too soon to say, Jeff.

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founding

Those folks have been saying that since 9/11, Bill.

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deletedNov 21, 2022·edited Nov 21, 2022
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founding

And as regards how the Army has dealt with people like Corporal Bonespurs in its midst in the past, does the word "fragging" ring a bell?

"Documented and suspected fragging incidents in Vietnam totaled nearly nine hundred from 1969 to 1972." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragging

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founding

For America’s Baby Boomers, fifty-nine years ago today ~ on 22 November 1963, the day President Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas ~ was The End of The Beginning of The End of The World As We Knew It.

It was exactly one year and one month earlier ~ on 22 October 1962, the nite President Kennedy informed the nation about the unfolding situation with Russian missiles in and headed toward Cuba ~ that The Beginning of The Beginning of The End of The World As We Boomers Knew It happened.

And it was three weeks before Dallas ~ on 1-2 November 1963, when the Diem government of South Vietnam was overthrown and he assassinated by a US-choreographed military coup ~ that those who were paying attention caught a very brief but clear glimpse of what the next decade plus held in store for both Americans and America, and for Vietnam and the Vietnamese.

For me personally ~ then a hot-shot high school football-playing Senior ~ the Beginning of The Beginning of The World that we Boomers would come to know very intimately happened two days later on Sunday, 24 November, at 12:20 pm EST. It went like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6PcVCqg3tg .

i remember watching that with my Parents on live, black and white network TV and asking myself and then them: “How can the man accused of murdering the President of the United States be gunned down in the basement of a fucking police station?”

Which ultimately planted a very real but deeply buried seed in my head, heart, and gut that there was much, much more to this whole story than anybody in the US government or Dallas Police Force was telling the American People.

And fifty-nine years later, the American People and the World STILL do not know EVERYTHING about JFK’s Assassination that the US government knew then and still knows now… :

“In 1979, the United States House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) agreed with the Warren Commission that Oswald did, in fact, assassinate Kennedy, but CONCLUDED THAT THE COMMISSION'S REPORT AND THE ORIGINAL FBI INVESTIGATION WERE SERIOUSLY FLAWED. The HSCA CONCLUDED THAT AT LEAST FOUR SHOTS WERE FIRED, WITH A ‘HIGH PROBABILITY’ THAT TWO GUNMEN FIRED AT THE PRESIDENT, AND THAT A CONSPIRACY WAS PROBABLE.[9] The HSCA stated that THE WARREN COMMISSION HAD ‘FAILED TO INVESTIGATE ADEQUATELY THE POSSIBILITY OF A CONSPIRACY TO ASSASSINATE THE PRESIDENT’.[29]

“Documents under Section 5 of the President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992 were REQUIRED TO BE RELEASED WITHIN 25 YEARS OF THE BILL'S OCTOBER 26, 1992, EFFECTIVE DATE. Most of the documents were released on October 26, 2017.[30] Exercising a provision of the 1992 act that allows for a President to extend the deadline, President TRUMP SET A NEW DEADLINE of October 26, 2021 for the remaining documents to be released.[31][32] In October 2021, President BIDEN FURTHER EXTENDED THE DEADLINE to December 15, 2022, citing delays related to the COVID-19 pandemic.[33][34]” Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_assassination_conspiracy_theories [EMPHASES added.]

Fifty-nine years later, the Question remains: Why all the secrets about November 22, 1963? What is it that this government dare not let the American People know? It will be interesting to see what excuse Biden comes up with on 15 December.

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founding

Gee…. Whatta surprise, eh? And just in time for The Holidays… :

FBI, DHS LEADERS WARN OF ‘SUBSTANTIAL’ RISKS OF TARGETED VIOLENCE by Rebecca Beitsch - 11/15/22

National security leaders on Tuesday stressed the ongoing threat posed by domestic extremism, terrorism and foreign countries as GOP lawmakers homed in on the southern border.

The hearing, an annual examination from the House Homeland Security Committee of threats facing the U.S., highlighted the gap between the top security focuses of the Biden administration and the extent a Republican-led Congress would zero in on oversight efforts at the border.

FBI Director Christopher Wray and Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas RATTLED OFF A SERIES OF THREATS FROM BOTH OUTSIDE AND INSIDE THE U.S., NOTING EFFORTS MADE BY RUSSIA, CHINA, IRAN AND NORTH KOREA TO SEEK TO UNDERMINE U.S. GLOBAL POWER.

And INTERNALLY, THE U.S. IS BATTLING A RISE IN VIOLENT EXTREMISM THAT HAS INCREASINGLY BEEN FOCUSED ON POLITICAL LEADERS AND GOVERNMENT INSTITUTIONS.

“The risk of targeted violence, perpetrated by actors abroad and at home, is substantial. Emerging technology platforms allow individuals and nation states to fan the flames of hate and personal grievances to large audiences and are encouraging people to commit violent acts,” Mayorkas said.

“Those driven to violence are targeting critical infrastructure; soft targets; faith-based institutions; institutions of higher education; racial and religious minorities; government facilities and personnel, including law enforcement and the military; and perceived ideological opponents.”

Continued at https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/3736668-fbi-dhs-leaders-warn-of-substantial-risks-of-targeted-violence/

{EMPHASIS added.]

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Scott Ritter talking in a Boston church yesterday with his latest update on the US instigated WAR with Russia over Ukraine.

https://youtu.be/0IvmmoGsdGA

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Nov 21, 2022·edited Nov 21, 2022

Because The Kansas City Times was quoting me over 2 Generations ago on September 13, 1976, as any of you would if you were me, since then I’ve watched the unfolding events of this World more closely than most people including the paid professionals.

“He came to town for the Republican National Convention and will stay until the election in November TO DO GOD’S BIDDING: To tell the World, from Kansas City, this country has been found wanting and its days are numbered […] He gestured toward a gleaming church dome. “The gold dome is the symbol of BABYLON,” he said.” […] He wanted to bring to the Public’s attention an “idea being put out subtly and deceptively” by the government that we have to get prepared for a War with Russia.”

I’m posting this because I generally agree with Scott Ritter’s interpretation of History in this video.

That 1976 FUTURE is NOW with the Revelation of the details GENERALLY unfolding in the spirit of the letter.

The World is waking up to see Americans may hasten “its days are numbered” part of the 1976 Vision, and waits with bated breath.

With the benefit of 46 years hindsight, the last 8 years of intensified FBI, Military, Intelligence and Think Tank “experts” on TV constantly, unanimously, demonizing Putin and Russia, with no dissent allowed, the People have been prepared. The MSM incites the American people and NATO, CanaDa included as an obedient Vassal to the US, for more WAR.

As the Canadian Health care system is collapsing, Trudeau and Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister Freeland has already given $2,000,000,000 in BORROWED MONEY to Ukraine

Few will recognize “this country has been found wanting and its days are numbered” as the 1st 2 parts of the 3 part Writing on the Wall from Daniel 5 in the Bible.

The Writing is on The Wall!

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founding

If America and “Americanism” has killed more than 20 million people since the end of World War II, how many people did Germany and Nazism kill before and during WW II? And how many did Russia, China, and that ilk and their Communism kill since the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917?

THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE KILLED BY NAZISM:

Jews: approximately 6 million.

Soviet civilians: around 7 million.

Soviet prisoners of war: about 3 million.

Non-Jewish Polish civilians: around 1.8 million.

Serb civilians: around 312,000.

Disabled people living in institutions: up to 250,000.

Roma: 250,000.

Jehovah’s witnesses: about 2000.

Homosexual: about 1000.

Repeat criminal offenders according to the Nazis: at least 70,000.

TOTAL DEATH TOLL: More than 18 MILLION. Which provides an interesting perspective on America’s Death Count.

THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE KILLED BY COMMUNISM:

In USSR: 20 million deaths. [As many as America has killed all over the world.]

China: 65 million.

Vietnam: 1 million. [Does not include numbers killed by Americans and ARVNs]

North Korea: 2 million deaths. [Does not include numbers killed by Americans and South Koreans]

Cambodia: 2 million deaths. [Does not include numbers killed by Americans]

Eastern Europe: 1 million deaths.

Latin America: one fifty thousand deaths.

Africa: 1.7 million deaths.

Afghanistan: 1.5 million.

International Communist Movement and the Communist Parties not in power have caused about 10,000 deaths.

TOTAL DEATH TOLL: Almost 95 MILLION. Which provides another interesting perspective on America’s Body Count, as well.

And it must be remembered that these numbers say nothing about the totally inestimable millions more who have been physically and psychologically maimed and crippled, or orphaned, widowed or widowered, rendered childless, and made homeless, hopeless refugees, prisoners, and slave laborers who didn’t die.

The purpose of this exercise is not to engage in some kind of “What Aboutism… .” As in: “Well, if You think America is bad, what about the Nazis and Commies?”

It is, rather, to condemn Any and All political/economic/social systems of government and governance that give one set of Humans total and complete legal and moral authority and lethal power to inflict all this pain and suffering on every and any other Human who gets in their way.

At least the systems Humans have come up with in the last 100 years. If not since the dawn of Western European Imperialism in the Western Hemisphere and then the rest of the planet from the 16th century on. And in actual Truth, since the very beginning of Human “civilization” and the earliest Familial and Tribal forms and systems of social and economic organization.

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founding

i have acknowledged here on BV several times in the past that the most important thing The Corporal did while on the throne was to not start any new wars or openly and overtly expand any existing wars. What was going on behind the scenes in his Pentagon, CIA, and State Department is a completely different matter.

But when the history of the America's War with Russia in Ukraine is written, it will be interesting to see exactly what The King Of Debt did and did not do besides talk nice-nice to Putin.

And what country is Carlson living in this week that "hasn't started a war for the first time in over four decades"? Apparently, he hasn't heard about Ukraine. Who does he think started that war? Putin?

And finally, i am not in Your MICC/ICCC business, nor in the Army, Dennis. So Your thoughts on what i call The Corporal and how i regard him with contempt and "disrespect" is Your problem. Not mine.

Just for starters, neither Trump nor any other President is my or any American's "CEO" who we work under and for. At least not in theory.

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deletedNov 21, 2022·edited Nov 21, 2022
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founding

Trump was their biggest "nightmare," eh? Heh.

How'd all those folks' budgets do when he was in charge? Ever hear anybody complaining that the National Security State was being neutered because of him or anybody else in Swampland?

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founding

So why is it that Everything BAD that happened on Trump's watch and since is not his fault; but Everything GOOD that happened is all and only because of his masterful handling of the Ship of State?

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founding

i'm not taking about what any of those people said: i don't have time like You do to read 882 comments that confirm what You already honestly and sincerely believe; regardless of the facts.

i am asking YOU why everything BAD that happened was not his fault at all, especially when anything GOOD that happened was entirely because of his vast brilliant entrepreneurial, management, and leadership skills.

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founding

It's not my pejorative, Dennis. It's straight out of the mouth of the man himself... :

DONALD TRUMP: 'I'M THE KING OF DEBT' by Matt Egan @MattEganCNN May 7, 2016

"I'M THE KING OF DEBT. I LOVE DEBT," Trump told CNN's Wolf Blitzer on Wednesday, seemingly trying to explain the comfort level he has with debt after a long business career that included four bankruptcy filings by his companies.

Trump made the comment in response to a question about whether it's time to bail out Puerto Rico, which is in the midst of an economic crisis. However, TRUMP SAID HE OPPOSES THE BAILOUT BECAUSE PUERTO RICO HAS TOO MUCH DEBT AND NEEDS TO CUT IT DOWN, WITHOUT HELP FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

Continued at https://money.cnn.com/2016/05/05/investing/trump-king-of-debt-fire-janet-yellen/index.html [EMPHASES added.]

And he certainly lived up to his self-proclaimed honorific when he sat on his throne in the Oval Office, didn't he?

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Focusing on Trump and arguing about what he might do or might have done is immaterial and a distraction from the issue at hand.

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founding

The only reason Trump keeps getting mentioned on BV, Bill, is because our Kiwi friend Dennis keeps touting our Corporal as America’s Savior and Solution to all of its problems; which is complete and total Bullshit.

Which is clearly demonstrated by his record in office as regards the very phenomenon You cite: the number of Americans working two or more jobs, have student, medical, and/or especially consumer and/or credit card debt, are homeless, can’t pay their rent, etc. i am gathering those numbers and will post them later today.

Trump’s performance as President and how this nation’s economy and civil society performed from 2017 to 2021 are no more immaterial and a distraction from the issue at hand than is Biden’s performance today, or Obama’s, etc, before Trump. What happened then is the foundation upon which ~ and the basis for what ~ is happening now.

The issue at hand is that the American system of government and governance is not working very well at all for a significant number of Americans here on the home front; and not just those specifically afflicted with the problems You list.

And for a massively greater number of people all over the Planet, that system is not working and has not worked at all. Especially over the last 21 years in places like Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Yemen, Syria, and so forth, and now Ukraine.

Let me ask a simple question: Do the American People bear ANY responsibility At All for what their nation has done in all those places since 9/11? Or is that completely on America’s Ruling Political Class and its Elites?

Because that is the Real Issue that is being addressed here, isn’t it?

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Jeff: It's a fair and interesting question. Remember the recent Princeton Study that revealed public opinion has virtually no impact whatsoever on what Congress does?

https://act.represent.us/sign/problempoll-fba/

Many "ordinary" people like us are protesting against Congress, the military, and the merchants of death. The problem is our protest has zero influence on how Congress acts. How money is spent. We have been neutered, neutralized, and reduced to non-factors.

So responsibility has to reside with those who are the decision-makers. And you know who they are.

I'm not saying we collectively share no responsibility. I'm saying a relatively few Americans share the bulk of the responsibility simply because they have the money, the power, and the ability to make things happen -- most of them bad.

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founding

Thank You, Bill, for referencing the Princeton study; i was not familiar with it, and there’s lots to chew on there. And Thanks for linking to represent.us, which i also had never heard of. Lots to ponder there, as well. The study itself is at https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-ofamerican-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-averagecitizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B .

The study was from 2014 and the represent.us figures were from 2016, but i’m sure little, if anything, has changed out in the real world since then. Or if it has changed, things have only gotten worse.

You wrote: “Many ‘ordinary’ people like us ARE PROTESTING AGAINST Congress, the military, and the merchants of death. The problem is OUR PROTEST has zero influence on how Congress acts. How money is spent. We have been neutered, neutralized, and reduced to non-factors.” [EMPHASIS added.]

First of all, exactly How Many people ~ ordinary or otherwise ~ have been protesting against exactly What? And since When and exactly Where have they been doing all this protesting?

And more importantly: How have they protested it? What have they actually, really Done to make their protest real, meaningful, and impactful?

And most importantly: What have they done in response to the fact that their protests ~ whatever they were ~ have changed absolutely Nothing?

When is the last time there was anything even close in this country to the Civil Rights and Anti-Vietnam War movements of the 60s?

Was there anything before, during, or after Desert Storm? Or after we launched our search for Saddam’s WMDs? Or since we’ve initiated Cold War II in Ukraine?

You concluded: “I'm not saying we collectively share no responsibility. I'm saying a relatively few Americans share the bulk of the responsibility simply because they have the money, the power, and the ability to make things happen -- most of them bad.”

So how much responsibility do we collectively share for something about which we have made no even cursory effort to first prevent, and, failing that, to stop?

And in some ways even more importantly, how much responsibility do we have and share as individuals and as Citizens of this nation?

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Good Madison quote. Not that very many students will even know who Madison was. Their loss and ours.

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Nov 20, 2022·edited Nov 20, 2022

Bill, I see you closed off commentating on your WordPress site.

Maybe that's because I was the only one to comment there on 'Taking On the Military-Industrial Complex?'

Why don't you just shut down the WP account you're paying for and just stick with this substack?

Seems to me like a waste of money to pay for web hosting twice posting the same articles.

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Ray: Substack is free. I've already paid for WordPress and it's not that expensive anyway.

Having two venues is just another way to distribute my articles a bit more widely.

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I thought it cost $5/month

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Nov 20, 2022·edited Nov 20, 2022

The Christ says, Blessed are the Peace Makers, for THEY shall be called the Children of God.

In self-proclaimed 'most Christian America' they are marginalized as the Children of WAR are incited by the MSM, the 5th Horseman of the Apocalypse.

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deletedNov 22, 2022·edited Nov 22, 2022
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Context is everything, Dennis.

As you say, Boeing is "squeezing" them. So I'll make an educated guess and say that Boeing is making enormous profits even as its various subcontractors suffer.

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Thank You for sharing that, Dennis. It highlites one minor and two very major points.

The Minor Point being that the reason Boeing is demanding all that “more and more QC, paperwork,” etc, is because the Federal government is demanding more and more of it, thereby giving the federal bureaucracy more things to keep track of and thus do, thereby needing a bigger “defense and national security” budget.

And of course Boeing is passing on the cost of meeting those requirements down to the sub- and sub-sub-contractors. Who else are they going to pass it along to? The US taxpayer?

* Major Point 1: Nobody said anything about sub- and sub-sub-contractors “getting rich off of cost-plus contracts.”

But i defy You to show even ONE major corporatist element of the “Industrial” wing [Boeing, Raytheon, Etc] of the MICC that has not shown overall profits from ALL their MICC-related business over the past 77 years since the end of World War II.

In fact, can You name any major player that has not turned massive profits and huge returns-on-investment during that period? And can You cite even one defense contractor who ever LOST money on any contract with the MICC?

* Major Point 2: You explained exactly why Washington’s Senior US Senator has been sent back to Swampland for her sixth term: If Your friends Paul and Jerry close their business, “18-familes in Puyallup WA will see their breadwinner become unemployed.”

And how many more breadwinners became unemployed when those two P & J competitors closed up?

But the impact doesn’t stop there. How many local businesses were dependent to one degree or another on how much money those now-unemployed bread winners used to spend in their stores, shops, and places of business on goods, products, and services? And how many of those local business will be in deeper trouble if there are more layoffs among sub- and sub-contractors?

And that, of course, doesn’t even consider how dependent local business are on the people who are actually physically employed by Boeing, etc now. What would happen to the entire Greater Seattle/Puget Sound Metro-area if all of a sudden Boeing lost its access to Uncle Sam’s MICC credit card?

Put in those terms and given what she has delivered in the past, it’s not at all hard to see why people in Washington keep sending Ms Murray back for more time at the trough.

Expand that concept to every geographical location of any element of the MICC ~ whether in the US or abroad ~ and it’s not at all hard to see why the MICC is ~ next only to The Federal Reserve ~ the most powerful force at work driving American politics and its systems of government and governance.

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deletedNov 23, 2022·edited Nov 23, 2022
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founding

Not to beat a dead horse, Dennis, but: WHO gave Boeing/L-M that power?

And more importantly: WHO has allowed the Feds' allowing this monopolization to happen?

And even more importantly: "Cui Bono?" WHO has benefitted, is benefitting, and will continue to benefit from all this?

And finally and most importantly: "Cui Malo" WHO has in the past paid, is at present paying, and will continue in the future to pay for all this?

And WHO has suffered in that past, is suffering now, and will continue to suffer in the future?

It is really no more ~ or less ~ complicated than that.

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deletedNov 20, 2022·edited Nov 20, 2022
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I think so. The State Department is the "expert", in line with standard progressive thinking about who should be in charge. The President has the final say, in line with the foreign policy "blob's" say so (State Dept., CIA, NSA, etc.). Congress typically rubber stamps. Industry stands by waiting for the orders to come through.

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