Basically, this "esteemed scholar" argues that we must prepare our "imaginations" for World War III because of Russia and China -- we must reimagine the pain and sacrifice of WWII so we can be ready to repeat it again, this time under a nuclear umbrella.
So much for trying to imagine peace! No -- we must gird ourselves for war. WTF? And the New York Times prints this garbage.
Why do You seem surprised ~ or even shocked ~ by this rant, Bill?
Can You cite even one War since Vietnam that the NYT ~ and the entire print and electronic MSM ~ did not wholly, totally, and completely embrace and endorse; starting with CNN and its embedment for Desert Storm?
My guess, Bill, is that at this stage of The Game, the American people do not WANT to know about all our Secret Wars. It's easier that way to not be against them.
After all, how can You be against something that You know nothing about?
And given all the Secret Wars in the past that Americans didn't know about while they were being fought ~ and could do nothing about after learning about them ~ it's no surprise that Americans aren't particularly concerned about any going on today.
Thanks for reading and responding to this--By all means OK to use my description of the B-21 unveiling, and ID me as a Vietnam Vet--one who knows what is like to have artillery shells, mortar
rounds, and RPGs rain down from above--which is nothing compararable to these stealth bombers--
but what struck me in my heart (fortunately, I have a great pacemaker) was the self-assured, almost condescending demeanor of the Secretary, the Hollywood staging and lighting, and the complete absence of consideration of what cognitive/emotional/moral injuries might be inflicted on the viewer, never mind experiencing exposure to the actual bomber and its payload--add in the incredible cost
and use of taxpayer money for a machine and support system that can never actually be used,
or if used would produce incalculable destruction of people and planet; again, never mind
how all that could have been used to start making America into a functioning social democracy instead of a declining, tottering empire--Well, gets my old Swords Into Plowshares comments fermenting--but realistically I believe we're a fatally flawed species that will self-destruct.
First may I say thanks for your good note and I can fill in some blanks, though I don't know who the
NYT commenter was that quoted Begin--
Yes, I was a Navy Medical Corps Battalion Surgeon right out of my internship in Portland, OR
when I got shipped out ( from Camp Pendleton after 13 days of "training") to the 1st Marine Division
in August 1969, assigned to the 3rd Infantry Battalion, 5th Regiment stationed in An Hoa (that was the
nearby village) in NE I Corps- that is where the Aid Station was but when the Marines go out they don't
leave the Doc behind, so for the next 6 months I was out in the bush with HQ Co for maybe 2 weeks,
then back at the Aid Station for 2 weeks-alternating with another young Doc--humping around thru
brushy hills and rice paddies, supported by 2 fine young Navy Medics and actually in some pretty hairy
combat, but nothing like the Army down south or the Marines endured in 1968--I was lucky to survive
and spent the 2nd 6 months with the 7th Engineering Battalion which was still out in the boonies at times
but much nearer Da Nang and with quiet, fairly safe living situations when not out running up and down roads,
guarding bridges etc.
I must say that I had great regard for all the NCOs, Marine and Navy Medical, never had any concern about their conduct with the troops or interactions with the local Viet villagers--outside the Firebase I'm sure it was
owned during the day by the Marines, by the Viet Cong at night, and we certainly got harassing mortar rounds,
sporadic attempts to penetrate the perimeter of the firebase--but out in the bush it was much more dangerous,
the whole area was booby-trapped, night-time attacks of our little compound--yet when we would go into a hamlet the few people there (no men) were treated with respect and we would even occasionally have a little "sick bay"
line-up where the medics and I would hand out soap, penicillin or anti malaria tabs--absurd but seemingly
appreciated !
This was in considerable contrast to the Army's Medical Corps experience down south, at least from my
getting to hear the stories of many Vets during my 5 years of serving as a staff psychiatrist at the VA many
years later, 2009-14. I got to know and worked extensively with some Army Vets who were in incredible
extended combat before, during, and after Tet 1968--the 101st Airborne I know was involved with the worst
of that and I developed a kind of collegial partnership with one (then young) officer, still on touch with each
other, as we tried to get some changes in the way the VA managed those terribly, permanently damaged,
Veterans--without much effect I'm afraid.
One final "correction" to my previous note--Hope Col. Bill will see this too--I was stunned by the announcement on the MSNBC web page about the new nuclear bomber--so if you haven't found it:
In the browser search bar type in: B21 Raider Reveal--you will get several photos and 2-3 thumbnail
video vignettes --the one to click on has a face-on photo of the bomber with dramatic blue and white backlighting--
Watch as the Secretary of Dept of Defense proudly introduces this obscene instrument of unbelievable death and destruction while workers pull away the drapes like uncovering a statue or memorial.
Hi Steve: Thanks so much. I'd like to quote you on your description of the B-21's unveiling in a new piece I'm writing. I'll identify you as a Vietnam veteran, if that's ok. Please let me know, and thanks!
You nailed it once again, Bill. Just as You did almost seven years ago with that linked piece by the same title.
In that 2016 article, You cited five forces driving the lack of any [let alone a Real and Effective] anti-war movement: the lack of a Draft, rampant Militarism, war-mongering Democrats, a war-championing Media, and the then-merely “nebulous factor” of FEAR
And, except for the Draft, each of those forces is even stronger today than they were when You noted them back when Donald Trump was still something to chuckle about. Particularly ~ since The COVID Event and January 6 ~ that no-longer nebulous, now Very Real and Effective factor of FEAR.
Just for starters: How many mass shootings has America had this year? And what’s all this about a tridemic and food and energy shortages this winter? And so forth.
But there is one force, factor, and fact that You didn’t mention either then or now. If, because of no Draft and the “All Volunteer Force,” the only Americans getting killed or maimed were/are doing it of their own free will, then the INVOLUNTARY Cost to Americans in BLOOD is virtually zero. Particularly compared to the Cost in Blood to Afghans, Iraqis, Libyans, Syrians, etc.
But there is another Cost of America’s Forever War that is also zero: the Cost in TREASURE.
The American people have not paid a single dime for that War. On 9/11, America’s national. Sovereign Debt was $5.7 trillion. Today, twenty-one years later, it stands at $31.3 trillion. In twenty-one years, America’s federal government Debt has increased 550%, making its Forever War a credit card War of epic proportions. An $8 trillion credit card War, to be exact: https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/figures/2021/BudgetaryCosts .
So, the header to this piece is not quite right. In actual fact, in The Forever War, America is not “getting what it Has paid for” at all. It is getting what it Hasn’t paid for at all, with somebody else down the road in line to handle the bill when it comes due. The big questions being, of course: When will it come due? And Who will get stuck with it?
Thus, because the American people have “no skin in The Game” ~ neither biological nor financial, neither Blood nor Treasure ~ it is not at all hard to understand why there is no anti-war movement here among either the Young and draftable [and their Parents] or the Older and taxable. Despite there being every reason in the world for there to be one.
Another factor that You didn’t mention back in 2016 or now is the complete and total lack of any kind of Religion- or Faith-based opposition to the War, such as there was during Vietnam. Where are the Bennetts, Berrigans, Coffins, Heschels, and Kings, and their “Clergy and Laymen Concerned About the War in Vietnam” with a Mission Statement modeled after this:
"What we are about today is not simply an end to the war in Vietnam, but a struggle against American imperialism and exploitation in just about every corner of the world... Our task is to join those who are angry and who hate the corporate power which the United States presently represents, and to attempt, in our struggle, to liberate not only black, brown and yellow men in every corner of the world, but more importantly, to help liberate our own nation from its reactionary and exploitative policies." [ https://keywiki.org/Clergy_and_Laity_Concerned#Founders ]
And American antiwar forces don’t merely “SOMETIMES disagree about what is at the root of America’s hyper-aggressiveness and how best to counter it, [some prioritizing] racism…white male patriarchy…indigenous peoples… BIPOC and LGBTQ+.” To the best of my knowledge, antiwar forces in America have NEVER agreed upon the ultimate root cause of that hyper-aggressiveness and even less on what to do about it.
In any event. i’ve said it before, and i’ll say it again: This Nation ~ and this Planet ~ doesn’t need a “Peace” or “Anti-War” MOVEMENT. They both desperately need a WAR AGAINST WAR.
Yes, you're right, Jeff, that war costs have largely been shifted onto future generations via the national debt. But that doesn't mean that we haven't paid a single dime for these wars. It's taxpayer money that funds the military, all its weaponry, and all the wars, so we do indeed pay, even if it's on the national credit card.
If it's put on the national credit card, Bill, today's tax payers are not paying for it. SOMEBODY will eventually have to pay for it; but nobody is right now.
Since 9/11, $25.6 trillion in total federal annual Deficit spending has been put on the card, almost 1/3 of which [$8 trillion] has covered the costs in Treasure of The Forever War.
If taxpayers covered that $8 trillion for the War, that simply means that the government put some other expenditures totaling $8t on the credit card instead. The end result as far as the size of the Debt is concerned is unchanged: it has still gone up 550% since 9/11.
ps: Sort of off-topic, but not really… : Given Your comments about lockdowns and sheltering in place in the linked articles, Bill, what at the time were and what now are Your thoughts about lockdowns and sheltering during The COVID Event?
"Enquiring minds want to know," as one early manifestation of media running amuck back in the 70s put it.
Measures to decrease Covid transmission -- "to flatten the curve" -- made some sense at the time. Mask-wearing, distancing, etc. There were only so many hospital beds and respirators, so I can understand erring on the side of caution.
But, as usual, overreaction, even panic, was the name of the game. The government either didn't know what it was doing or took the opportunity to become more draconian while shifting even more money to the banks, or both. Never waste a crisis, I suppose.
Despite the fact that the US spends more per capita ~ and as a percentage of GDP ~ on Health Care than any other nation, with 4.2% of the World’s Total Population, the US has had 15.5% of the Total COVID Cases and 16.6% of the Total Deaths
Sort of like how You pointed out in Your December 1 piece, “War Dividends” the fact that the US has historically spent as much on “national security” and “defense” as a whole bunch of other nations combined. And hasn‘t won a war in 77 years.
"When a nation re-awakens, its finest sons are prepared to give their lives for its liberation. When empires are threatened with collapse, they are prepared to sacrifice their non-commissioned officers."
- Menachem Begin, (1951)
--From a NYT reader's comment.
Please keep plugging away at this theme that you have been developing over the past
couple of months. Also check out the stunning video of the dramatic "unveiling" of the
"secret" N-Grumman B51 nuclear bomber--I submit as a 79 y/o Vietnam combat Vet (Battalion Surgeon 1-3-5 "69-70) ,retired Psychiatrist (40 years of practice including 5 with the VA),
long-time anti-MICC+++ citizen, reader and supporter of Englehardt's TomDispatch and your
own Bracing Views, that we are a fatally flawed species, doomed by our own self-destructive drives.
Life will survive in some forms on the planet but perhaps in a few millennia some more copacetic
species will evolve. I feel for my 4 granddaughters--
Hi Steve. As a 76 y/o retired non-commissioned officer [US Army Master Sergeant with 28 years service, including two in Vietnam in the 60s and two in the pre-Operation Desert Storm Middle East in the 80s], i can’t help but wonder who it was that Begin said was prepared to sacrifice their NCOs: The Empire, or that Empire’s “finest sons” who were Generals, Colonels, and Majors?
In any event, may i ask where You were when You were with “1-3-5”? Is that the 5th Division and were You folks up near the DMZ?
i was an infantryman/radio operator in the 101st up in the Central Highlands, and then an assault helicopter door gunner down in the Mekong Delta [best job i ever had in the Army other than being a Senior NCO assigned to the Office of the Inspector General of the Army].
And i can only glumly agree with Your prediction about our species. How’d that cartoon go?
Global nuclear war has wiped out all life on Earth except for some single cell amoebas, algae, plankton, and bacteria down in the deepest pit of the deepest trench in the Pacific Ocean. Upon reviewing the entire history of Life on this Planet back from the very beginning and the emergence of the first amoebas, algae, plankton, and bacteria, it was agreed upon by all present: “Next time, no Brains.”
And i feel for Your ~ and for Everybody’s ~ Granddaughters. And Grandsons. We Boomers and our Kids are in the process of leaving those folks and their Kids nothing but tragedy and the horror of tyranny, chaos, and ultimately, collapse.
WW2 provided an incredible economic boom, even though many American lives were lost. Now the economic benefits can be gained with few lives lost in a volunteer army even as non-military industry has fled overseas. It can be presented as helping other countries. It is succeeding in the process of making the world safe for business, no change from what Smedley Butler talked about so long ago.
The rush to aid for Ukraine showed more enthusiasm in Congress than I can recall. Given all the above, who's interested in being anti-war? The annual pass-though of the even-increasing military budget tells the story.
I don't approve of making money from war, but looked at realistically it's hard to see any change coming or any organized opposition arising.
been that way since clinton put talbot and nuland-kagan against russia in dept f sate in 1993.
and the solution for a little civil war in serbia blown up to a faux genocide was 99 days bombing belgrade to carve out the county of kosovo from serbia with a mechanized brigade still there at camp bondsteel.
the war machine save the kodsovar!!
now the war machine is keeping ethnic russians in a ukraine sewn together by bolshivists and the red army.
bc ukraine is alleged to have a democracy, imposed b y the color revolt with nuland-kagan in kiev that week.....
center libs and rino's are selling 'moral war' where there is no moral....
one of these days russia is taking out a satekllite that direct us weapons in ukraine fired by us contractors....
Bill, You wrote: “A lot of people make a lot of money off the military-industrial complex, but it’s not solely about money. They also gain an identity from it and relatively high social status. (The military remains deeply respected within American culture.)”
It may be “respected” [whatever that means], but how much trust and confidence in it is there? According to a new poll from the Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation:
“From 2018 to 2021, trust and confidence in the military fell from 70 percent to 45 percent. While that rose slightly in this year’s poll to 48 percent, the fact that America’s trust in the military dropped 22 points over a five year period should set off alarm bells for the Pentagon. (No other institution polled by the Reagan effort has such a sharp decline.)
“Respondents gave a number of reasons for their declining trust, with perceived politicization of military leaders and questions about the commander in chief topping the list.
“The Reagan pollsters attempted to tackle the politicization of the country by offering two choices to respondents: to blame ‘the so-called “woke” practices’ undermining military effectiveness’ (30 percent) or to blame ‘the so-called Right Wing or Extremist individuals serving in the military’ (23 percent). Unsurprisingly, those who complained about ‘woke’ practices were overwhelmingly Republican and those who complained about ‘right wing’ practices were overwhelmingly Democrat.
“This matters not just in the abstract, said Zackheim, but because trust in the military directly impacts the ability to recruit. And indeed, only 13 percent of respondents aged 18-29, the key recruitment range, said they were ‘extremely’ or ‘very’ willing to join the military — a number smaller than the 20 percent who responded ‘not willing at all.’
Yes, I hadn't seen this new poll. Trust in the military is still strong, I think. What's happening is that political polarization is now showing up and being transferred to the military. Hence "wokeness" and distrust of Trump as commander-in-chief. It's not that people distrust the military per se. It's that they distrust what the Democrats (or Republicans) are allegedly doing to the military.
i'm not sure that a drop from 70% to 48% in five years indicates that trust and confidence in the military is still "strong."
i think it has far less to do with "wokeness" and Trump than it has to do with that phenomenon of "heroization" discussed in Your "A Peculiar Form of American Madness" article: Very few Americans have trust, faith, and confidence in Losers; just as very few Americans regard Losers as Heroes.
And since the end of World War II seventy-seven years ago, that "greatest [and most expensive] military force in the history of the universe" has lost every war it has got itself involved in except when it liberated the Incubator Babies of Kuwait.
Well said, but one more point about disenchantment with Viet Nam: the propaganda about how famously the US was doing in that war destroyed by the Tet Offensive in 1968. Let's see what happens when the Ukraine war comes unstuck.
Years ago I ran across a quotation in a memoir or biography of one of the allied leaders in WW I that is applicable more than ever now: "Trust no soldier in matters of security, no policeman in matters of safety, and no doctors in matters of health. " I thought it might have been Lloyd George or Clemenceau, but have not found it again.
Yes. I used to see a lot of bumper stickers with a "Question Authority" message, mainly on the cars of liberals. Now I see few if any, and those with that theme are typically on the pickup trucks of Trumpers.
I think that's all accurate. In addition, an anti-war movement would likely be led by students, but students have already been effectively organized by the Democratic Party. Our Ukraine war against Russia is being led by the Democrats. Recall that shortly after Russia invaded Ukraine, Pelosi arranged for Zelenskyy to address (remotely) a joint session of Congress, which resulted it their giving him a standing ovation. Then Nancy went to Kiev to get her Princess Olga medal for a job well done. Mitch McConnell followed up with his visit to Kiev but I don't think he got a medal. Neither did Maine's Susan Collins, who accompanied him and thereby ensured that Maine would have Zelenskyy's support in case Russia ever invaded Augusta in order to effect regime change. Or something. (sarc)
I tend to watch a lot of movies and end up looking up actors and actresses on Wikipedia. Now that I think of it, I've read of dozens who speak out on LGBTQ+ issues but I don't recall any who are currently active in any kind of anti-war movement.
Well, I'm not much a follower of celebrities, but Susan Sarandon comes to mind. And, I think, Steven Seagal. But in general, actors aren't known for being courageously anti-establishment or even all that well-informed about U.S. foreign policy. They'll tend to reflect broader American opinion... which as we know is shaped by massive pro-war propaganda. Perhaps the McCarthy Era put a lasting scare into most.
Saradon was against the Iraq war, led by the Republican G.W.Bush. On the Ukraine war led by Democrats, she is silent. She doesn't go against her party.
That's the thing, Bill. If you want a medal you're going to have to switch sides. Hey, maybe that's part of the problem. Medals are only given out for participating in war. What we need are anti-war medals. And award ceremonies attended by star-studded celebrities. Surely there are Hollywood celebrities who are against war. Surely. Maybe.
If you want to read something truly disturbing, even bonkers, consider this article at the New York Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/02/opinion/america-world-war-iii.html
Basically, this "esteemed scholar" argues that we must prepare our "imaginations" for World War III because of Russia and China -- we must reimagine the pain and sacrifice of WWII so we can be ready to repeat it again, this time under a nuclear umbrella.
So much for trying to imagine peace! No -- we must gird ourselves for war. WTF? And the New York Times prints this garbage.
Why do You seem surprised ~ or even shocked ~ by this rant, Bill?
Can You cite even one War since Vietnam that the NYT ~ and the entire print and electronic MSM ~ did not wholly, totally, and completely embrace and endorse; starting with CNN and its embedment for Desert Storm?
You're right -- I shouldn't be surprised yet I still am. I can't beat the idealism and naivete out of myself.
Beatings will continue until my idealism is gone.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/1952223334
Heh. Is that because You're not trying hard enough?
I could have added that it's hard to be against wars when you don't even know about them.
https://theintercept.com/2022/11/03/us-military-secret-wars/
My guess, Bill, is that at this stage of The Game, the American people do not WANT to know about all our Secret Wars. It's easier that way to not be against them.
After all, how can You be against something that You know nothing about?
And given all the Secret Wars in the past that Americans didn't know about while they were being fought ~ and could do nothing about after learning about them ~ it's no surprise that Americans aren't particularly concerned about any going on today.
Hi Bill,
Thanks for reading and responding to this--By all means OK to use my description of the B-21 unveiling, and ID me as a Vietnam Vet--one who knows what is like to have artillery shells, mortar
rounds, and RPGs rain down from above--which is nothing compararable to these stealth bombers--
but what struck me in my heart (fortunately, I have a great pacemaker) was the self-assured, almost condescending demeanor of the Secretary, the Hollywood staging and lighting, and the complete absence of consideration of what cognitive/emotional/moral injuries might be inflicted on the viewer, never mind experiencing exposure to the actual bomber and its payload--add in the incredible cost
and use of taxpayer money for a machine and support system that can never actually be used,
or if used would produce incalculable destruction of people and planet; again, never mind
how all that could have been used to start making America into a functioning social democracy instead of a declining, tottering empire--Well, gets my old Swords Into Plowshares comments fermenting--but realistically I believe we're a fatally flawed species that will self-destruct.
Steve Melson <sj.melson@gmail.com>
9:12 AM (2 minutes ago)
to me
New comment on Where's the Antiwar Movement?
Steve Melson <sj.melson@gmail.com> Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 11:29 PM
To: forum+1gmy4p&3bpxm&6hrxx&59ad6d847338d108a7a635b07fba2cdb2ed7f5cc0144ea3bc44d7fbdf4c97e92@mg1.substack.com
Hi jg,
First may I say thanks for your good note and I can fill in some blanks, though I don't know who the
NYT commenter was that quoted Begin--
Yes, I was a Navy Medical Corps Battalion Surgeon right out of my internship in Portland, OR
when I got shipped out ( from Camp Pendleton after 13 days of "training") to the 1st Marine Division
in August 1969, assigned to the 3rd Infantry Battalion, 5th Regiment stationed in An Hoa (that was the
nearby village) in NE I Corps- that is where the Aid Station was but when the Marines go out they don't
leave the Doc behind, so for the next 6 months I was out in the bush with HQ Co for maybe 2 weeks,
then back at the Aid Station for 2 weeks-alternating with another young Doc--humping around thru
brushy hills and rice paddies, supported by 2 fine young Navy Medics and actually in some pretty hairy
combat, but nothing like the Army down south or the Marines endured in 1968--I was lucky to survive
and spent the 2nd 6 months with the 7th Engineering Battalion which was still out in the boonies at times
but much nearer Da Nang and with quiet, fairly safe living situations when not out running up and down roads,
guarding bridges etc.
I must say that I had great regard for all the NCOs, Marine and Navy Medical, never had any concern about their conduct with the troops or interactions with the local Viet villagers--outside the Firebase I'm sure it was
owned during the day by the Marines, by the Viet Cong at night, and we certainly got harassing mortar rounds,
sporadic attempts to penetrate the perimeter of the firebase--but out in the bush it was much more dangerous,
the whole area was booby-trapped, night-time attacks of our little compound--yet when we would go into a hamlet the few people there (no men) were treated with respect and we would even occasionally have a little "sick bay"
line-up where the medics and I would hand out soap, penicillin or anti malaria tabs--absurd but seemingly
appreciated !
This was in considerable contrast to the Army's Medical Corps experience down south, at least from my
getting to hear the stories of many Vets during my 5 years of serving as a staff psychiatrist at the VA many
years later, 2009-14. I got to know and worked extensively with some Army Vets who were in incredible
extended combat before, during, and after Tet 1968--the 101st Airborne I know was involved with the worst
of that and I developed a kind of collegial partnership with one (then young) officer, still on touch with each
other, as we tried to get some changes in the way the VA managed those terribly, permanently damaged,
Veterans--without much effect I'm afraid.
One final "correction" to my previous note--Hope Col. Bill will see this too--I was stunned by the announcement on the MSNBC web page about the new nuclear bomber--so if you haven't found it:
In the browser search bar type in: B21 Raider Reveal--you will get several photos and 2-3 thumbnail
video vignettes --the one to click on has a face-on photo of the bomber with dramatic blue and white backlighting--
Watch as the Secretary of Dept of Defense proudly introduces this obscene instrument of unbelievable death and destruction while workers pull away the drapes like uncovering a statue or memorial.
Then try to go to sleep--
Hi Steve: Thanks so much. I'd like to quote you on your description of the B-21's unveiling in a new piece I'm writing. I'll identify you as a Vietnam veteran, if that's ok. Please let me know, and thanks!
Thank You, Steve. Will reply by e~mail later today or nite. ~ jeff
You nailed it once again, Bill. Just as You did almost seven years ago with that linked piece by the same title.
In that 2016 article, You cited five forces driving the lack of any [let alone a Real and Effective] anti-war movement: the lack of a Draft, rampant Militarism, war-mongering Democrats, a war-championing Media, and the then-merely “nebulous factor” of FEAR
And, except for the Draft, each of those forces is even stronger today than they were when You noted them back when Donald Trump was still something to chuckle about. Particularly ~ since The COVID Event and January 6 ~ that no-longer nebulous, now Very Real and Effective factor of FEAR.
Just for starters: How many mass shootings has America had this year? And what’s all this about a tridemic and food and energy shortages this winter? And so forth.
But there is one force, factor, and fact that You didn’t mention either then or now. If, because of no Draft and the “All Volunteer Force,” the only Americans getting killed or maimed were/are doing it of their own free will, then the INVOLUNTARY Cost to Americans in BLOOD is virtually zero. Particularly compared to the Cost in Blood to Afghans, Iraqis, Libyans, Syrians, etc.
But there is another Cost of America’s Forever War that is also zero: the Cost in TREASURE.
The American people have not paid a single dime for that War. On 9/11, America’s national. Sovereign Debt was $5.7 trillion. Today, twenty-one years later, it stands at $31.3 trillion. In twenty-one years, America’s federal government Debt has increased 550%, making its Forever War a credit card War of epic proportions. An $8 trillion credit card War, to be exact: https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/figures/2021/BudgetaryCosts .
So, the header to this piece is not quite right. In actual fact, in The Forever War, America is not “getting what it Has paid for” at all. It is getting what it Hasn’t paid for at all, with somebody else down the road in line to handle the bill when it comes due. The big questions being, of course: When will it come due? And Who will get stuck with it?
Thus, because the American people have “no skin in The Game” ~ neither biological nor financial, neither Blood nor Treasure ~ it is not at all hard to understand why there is no anti-war movement here among either the Young and draftable [and their Parents] or the Older and taxable. Despite there being every reason in the world for there to be one.
Another factor that You didn’t mention back in 2016 or now is the complete and total lack of any kind of Religion- or Faith-based opposition to the War, such as there was during Vietnam. Where are the Bennetts, Berrigans, Coffins, Heschels, and Kings, and their “Clergy and Laymen Concerned About the War in Vietnam” with a Mission Statement modeled after this:
"What we are about today is not simply an end to the war in Vietnam, but a struggle against American imperialism and exploitation in just about every corner of the world... Our task is to join those who are angry and who hate the corporate power which the United States presently represents, and to attempt, in our struggle, to liberate not only black, brown and yellow men in every corner of the world, but more importantly, to help liberate our own nation from its reactionary and exploitative policies." [ https://keywiki.org/Clergy_and_Laity_Concerned#Founders ]
And American antiwar forces don’t merely “SOMETIMES disagree about what is at the root of America’s hyper-aggressiveness and how best to counter it, [some prioritizing] racism…white male patriarchy…indigenous peoples… BIPOC and LGBTQ+.” To the best of my knowledge, antiwar forces in America have NEVER agreed upon the ultimate root cause of that hyper-aggressiveness and even less on what to do about it.
In any event. i’ve said it before, and i’ll say it again: This Nation ~ and this Planet ~ doesn’t need a “Peace” or “Anti-War” MOVEMENT. They both desperately need a WAR AGAINST WAR.
Yes, you're right, Jeff, that war costs have largely been shifted onto future generations via the national debt. But that doesn't mean that we haven't paid a single dime for these wars. It's taxpayer money that funds the military, all its weaponry, and all the wars, so we do indeed pay, even if it's on the national credit card.
If it's put on the national credit card, Bill, today's tax payers are not paying for it. SOMEBODY will eventually have to pay for it; but nobody is right now.
Since 9/11, $25.6 trillion in total federal annual Deficit spending has been put on the card, almost 1/3 of which [$8 trillion] has covered the costs in Treasure of The Forever War.
If taxpayers covered that $8 trillion for the War, that simply means that the government put some other expenditures totaling $8t on the credit card instead. The end result as far as the size of the Debt is concerned is unchanged: it has still gone up 550% since 9/11.
ps: Sort of off-topic, but not really… : Given Your comments about lockdowns and sheltering in place in the linked articles, Bill, what at the time were and what now are Your thoughts about lockdowns and sheltering during The COVID Event?
"Enquiring minds want to know," as one early manifestation of media running amuck back in the 70s put it.
Measures to decrease Covid transmission -- "to flatten the curve" -- made some sense at the time. Mask-wearing, distancing, etc. There were only so many hospital beds and respirators, so I can understand erring on the side of caution.
But, as usual, overreaction, even panic, was the name of the game. The government either didn't know what it was doing or took the opportunity to become more draconian while shifting even more money to the banks, or both. Never waste a crisis, I suppose.
standard epidemiology prior to the election year 'novel' virus was contrary to everything imposed!
the media and social mdeida espoused the oppositie of anything planned.
the who going crazy was complicit.
if the excess death data were not manipulated we will see excess deaths in the future out weigh the faux model produced lives saved.
NEVER.
Despite the fact that the US spends more per capita ~ and as a percentage of GDP ~ on Health Care than any other nation, with 4.2% of the World’s Total Population, the US has had 15.5% of the Total COVID Cases and 16.6% of the Total Deaths
[ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ ]
Sort of like how You pointed out in Your December 1 piece, “War Dividends” the fact that the US has historically spent as much on “national security” and “defense” as a whole bunch of other nations combined. And hasn‘t won a war in 77 years.
Only in America, Jeff, is war AND sickness the health of the (corporate) state.
Who dares to say we're not exceptional?
No, CDC Did Not Admit Overcounting COVID-19 Cases In Hospitals
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/may/20/gateway-pundit/no-cdc-did-not-admit-overcounting-covid-19-cases-h/
"When a nation re-awakens, its finest sons are prepared to give their lives for its liberation. When empires are threatened with collapse, they are prepared to sacrifice their non-commissioned officers."
- Menachem Begin, (1951)
--From a NYT reader's comment.
Please keep plugging away at this theme that you have been developing over the past
couple of months. Also check out the stunning video of the dramatic "unveiling" of the
"secret" N-Grumman B51 nuclear bomber--I submit as a 79 y/o Vietnam combat Vet (Battalion Surgeon 1-3-5 "69-70) ,retired Psychiatrist (40 years of practice including 5 with the VA),
long-time anti-MICC+++ citizen, reader and supporter of Englehardt's TomDispatch and your
own Bracing Views, that we are a fatally flawed species, doomed by our own self-destructive drives.
Life will survive in some forms on the planet but perhaps in a few millennia some more copacetic
species will evolve. I feel for my 4 granddaughters--
Hi Steve. As a 76 y/o retired non-commissioned officer [US Army Master Sergeant with 28 years service, including two in Vietnam in the 60s and two in the pre-Operation Desert Storm Middle East in the 80s], i can’t help but wonder who it was that Begin said was prepared to sacrifice their NCOs: The Empire, or that Empire’s “finest sons” who were Generals, Colonels, and Majors?
In any event, may i ask where You were when You were with “1-3-5”? Is that the 5th Division and were You folks up near the DMZ?
i was an infantryman/radio operator in the 101st up in the Central Highlands, and then an assault helicopter door gunner down in the Mekong Delta [best job i ever had in the Army other than being a Senior NCO assigned to the Office of the Inspector General of the Army].
And i can only glumly agree with Your prediction about our species. How’d that cartoon go?
Global nuclear war has wiped out all life on Earth except for some single cell amoebas, algae, plankton, and bacteria down in the deepest pit of the deepest trench in the Pacific Ocean. Upon reviewing the entire history of Life on this Planet back from the very beginning and the emergence of the first amoebas, algae, plankton, and bacteria, it was agreed upon by all present: “Next time, no Brains.”
And i feel for Your ~ and for Everybody’s ~ Granddaughters. And Grandsons. We Boomers and our Kids are in the process of leaving those folks and their Kids nothing but tragedy and the horror of tyranny, chaos, and ultimately, collapse.
WW2 provided an incredible economic boom, even though many American lives were lost. Now the economic benefits can be gained with few lives lost in a volunteer army even as non-military industry has fled overseas. It can be presented as helping other countries. It is succeeding in the process of making the world safe for business, no change from what Smedley Butler talked about so long ago.
The rush to aid for Ukraine showed more enthusiasm in Congress than I can recall. Given all the above, who's interested in being anti-war? The annual pass-though of the even-increasing military budget tells the story.
I don't approve of making money from war, but looked at realistically it's hard to see any change coming or any organized opposition arising.
neocon have merged with neolib.
been that way since clinton put talbot and nuland-kagan against russia in dept f sate in 1993.
and the solution for a little civil war in serbia blown up to a faux genocide was 99 days bombing belgrade to carve out the county of kosovo from serbia with a mechanized brigade still there at camp bondsteel.
the war machine save the kodsovar!!
now the war machine is keeping ethnic russians in a ukraine sewn together by bolshivists and the red army.
bc ukraine is alleged to have a democracy, imposed b y the color revolt with nuland-kagan in kiev that week.....
center libs and rino's are selling 'moral war' where there is no moral....
one of these days russia is taking out a satekllite that direct us weapons in ukraine fired by us contractors....
I miss the old anti-war songs. War, what is it good for, absolutely nothing, say it again.
Bill, You wrote: “A lot of people make a lot of money off the military-industrial complex, but it’s not solely about money. They also gain an identity from it and relatively high social status. (The military remains deeply respected within American culture.)”
It may be “respected” [whatever that means], but how much trust and confidence in it is there? According to a new poll from the Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation:
“From 2018 to 2021, trust and confidence in the military fell from 70 percent to 45 percent. While that rose slightly in this year’s poll to 48 percent, the fact that America’s trust in the military dropped 22 points over a five year period should set off alarm bells for the Pentagon. (No other institution polled by the Reagan effort has such a sharp decline.)
“Respondents gave a number of reasons for their declining trust, with perceived politicization of military leaders and questions about the commander in chief topping the list.
“The Reagan pollsters attempted to tackle the politicization of the country by offering two choices to respondents: to blame ‘the so-called “woke” practices’ undermining military effectiveness’ (30 percent) or to blame ‘the so-called Right Wing or Extremist individuals serving in the military’ (23 percent). Unsurprisingly, those who complained about ‘woke’ practices were overwhelmingly Republican and those who complained about ‘right wing’ practices were overwhelmingly Democrat.
“This matters not just in the abstract, said Zackheim, but because trust in the military directly impacts the ability to recruit. And indeed, only 13 percent of respondents aged 18-29, the key recruitment range, said they were ‘extremely’ or ‘very’ willing to join the military — a number smaller than the 20 percent who responded ‘not willing at all.’
https://breakingdefense.com/2022/12/majority-of-americans-stand-with-ukraine-trust-in-us-military-a-growing-concern-poll/
Yes, I hadn't seen this new poll. Trust in the military is still strong, I think. What's happening is that political polarization is now showing up and being transferred to the military. Hence "wokeness" and distrust of Trump as commander-in-chief. It's not that people distrust the military per se. It's that they distrust what the Democrats (or Republicans) are allegedly doing to the military.
i'm not sure that a drop from 70% to 48% in five years indicates that trust and confidence in the military is still "strong."
i think it has far less to do with "wokeness" and Trump than it has to do with that phenomenon of "heroization" discussed in Your "A Peculiar Form of American Madness" article: Very few Americans have trust, faith, and confidence in Losers; just as very few Americans regard Losers as Heroes.
And since the end of World War II seventy-seven years ago, that "greatest [and most expensive] military force in the history of the universe" has lost every war it has got itself involved in except when it liberated the Incubator Babies of Kuwait.
Well said, but one more point about disenchantment with Viet Nam: the propaganda about how famously the US was doing in that war destroyed by the Tet Offensive in 1968. Let's see what happens when the Ukraine war comes unstuck.
Years ago I ran across a quotation in a memoir or biography of one of the allied leaders in WW I that is applicable more than ever now: "Trust no soldier in matters of security, no policeman in matters of safety, and no doctors in matters of health. " I thought it might have been Lloyd George or Clemenceau, but have not found it again.
Yes. I used to see a lot of bumper stickers with a "Question Authority" message, mainly on the cars of liberals. Now I see few if any, and those with that theme are typically on the pickup trucks of Trumpers.
I think that's all accurate. In addition, an anti-war movement would likely be led by students, but students have already been effectively organized by the Democratic Party. Our Ukraine war against Russia is being led by the Democrats. Recall that shortly after Russia invaded Ukraine, Pelosi arranged for Zelenskyy to address (remotely) a joint session of Congress, which resulted it their giving him a standing ovation. Then Nancy went to Kiev to get her Princess Olga medal for a job well done. Mitch McConnell followed up with his visit to Kiev but I don't think he got a medal. Neither did Maine's Susan Collins, who accompanied him and thereby ensured that Maine would have Zelenskyy's support in case Russia ever invaded Augusta in order to effect regime change. Or something. (sarc)
So far I've received no medals for writing against war. :-)
I tend to watch a lot of movies and end up looking up actors and actresses on Wikipedia. Now that I think of it, I've read of dozens who speak out on LGBTQ+ issues but I don't recall any who are currently active in any kind of anti-war movement.
Well, I'm not much a follower of celebrities, but Susan Sarandon comes to mind. And, I think, Steven Seagal. But in general, actors aren't known for being courageously anti-establishment or even all that well-informed about U.S. foreign policy. They'll tend to reflect broader American opinion... which as we know is shaped by massive pro-war propaganda. Perhaps the McCarthy Era put a lasting scare into most.
Seagal is in an interesting position, having US and Russian citizenship. I understand he knows Putin. You won't see him on talk shows.
Saradon was against the Iraq war, led by the Republican G.W.Bush. On the Ukraine war led by Democrats, she is silent. She doesn't go against her party.
That's the thing, Bill. If you want a medal you're going to have to switch sides. Hey, maybe that's part of the problem. Medals are only given out for participating in war. What we need are anti-war medals. And award ceremonies attended by star-studded celebrities. Surely there are Hollywood celebrities who are against war. Surely. Maybe.
Ha ha. Just give them money and weapons -- nothing can go wrong!
I know how Dick Cheney would reply: "So?"
Who cares what the people want -- we do what we want.
f-22, b-2, m/cv-22, f-35, ford class carriers, virginia class subs....
expensive profitable, disarmament!
Thanks, Ray. Yes, I'm relatively new to video. I much prefer writing, but nothing ventured, nothing gained, or something like that.
If only I felt as young as you say I look.